KLM Another Social Media Shocker
I was going to say, much earlier, that this discussion would be better suited to another forum
But since we've all jumped in, boots and all, then I'll continue in that vein.
KLM is an international airline catering to a multitude of cultures. Their policies need to try to accommodate all of them.
Some of them do NOT share the current western liberal viewpoint regarding exposed female breasts.
In Indonesia for instance, exposed SHOULDERS, are punishable under the 2013 Pornography laws.
The right to publicly breastfeed your child, that is with exposed breasts, is not universally accepted despite what the liberated and angry west may feel about it.
Despite what several prior posts have declared, KLM has nowhere said that nursing mothers can not feed their children on-board.
The only reason for making those claims, that I can imagine, is to heighten the soapbox from which the protagonist is spouting.
A little bit of give and take is all that is needed. That seems to be a bit too much for some.
But since we've all jumped in, boots and all, then I'll continue in that vein.
KLM is an international airline catering to a multitude of cultures. Their policies need to try to accommodate all of them.
Some of them do NOT share the current western liberal viewpoint regarding exposed female breasts.
In Indonesia for instance, exposed SHOULDERS, are punishable under the 2013 Pornography laws.
The right to publicly breastfeed your child, that is with exposed breasts, is not universally accepted despite what the liberated and angry west may feel about it.
Despite what several prior posts have declared, KLM has nowhere said that nursing mothers can not feed their children on-board.
The only reason for making those claims, that I can imagine, is to heighten the soapbox from which the protagonist is spouting.
A little bit of give and take is all that is needed. That seems to be a bit too much for some.
Originally Posted by Pander21[left
I won’t allow a troll army to pull any comment on board or tweet by social media staff out of context, just for the sake of their agenda.
[/left]
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No I’m not, it points at how absurd the discussion is, using safety as an excuse for every little thing is just as absurd though and weakens the value of the argument when you ask someone to do something that genuinely is a safety issue. Covering up just isn’t.
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is not universally accepted despite what the liberated and angry west may feel about it.
A little bit of give and take is all that is needed.
In the case of breastfeeding I think most mothers, even these loose western women, would prefer not to do "it" in the open. But when baby is hungry, baby is hungry. PERIOD. The whole thing is just absurd, as it is the academic discussion of a non-event. The most absurd part is how people treat KLM for a sensible answer of a commercial entity who needs customers to be satisfied to stay in business. Looking away or rather just not looking isn´t really that hard, covering up on occasion won´t hurt either.
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I'm sorry to be so old-fashioned, but public breastfeeding with exposed milk sources is a bit too much. I understand that it's a necessity, but why not cover? My wife managed to feed three of our children without exposing herself for the world to see. Apologies for the crude example, but that same mother would scream her lungs out if I take out my particulars to satisfy my need, just as or maybe even more urgent, at the nearest bush. But her necessity is a guaranteed right, and mine is public disturbance.
As for the gay couple, I don't even understand why the question was asked. In Holland, no less. I've been married for 20+ years and I've never asked anyone permission to hold hands with my spouse. Why did that couple decide to ask for one? I cannot think of a reason other than fishing for a reply they could post on whatever "social" website.
As for the gay couple, I don't even understand why the question was asked. In Holland, no less. I've been married for 20+ years and I've never asked anyone permission to hold hands with my spouse. Why did that couple decide to ask for one? I cannot think of a reason other than fishing for a reply they could post on whatever "social" website.
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And indeed yes, I personally won’t allow anyone sitting behind a keyboard (without any knowledge of a certain situation) to falsely push any group or individual in a exclusive, racist, homophobic or whatever corner. Exactly as you are trying to do right now.
Given the USA's rather prudish attitudes to the display of mammary glands in public and on broadcast media, I wonder what would be the response of American Airlines or United were a passenger to not cover up when breastfeeding their little one?
Once again, three words from an entire post pulled out of context with the only goal to push someone (who clearly tries to embody Dutch culture) in a certain exclusive corner. Thank you for confirming what I was talking about in my previous post.
And indeed yes, I personally won’t allow anyone sitting behind a keyboard (without any knowledge of a certain situation) to falsely push any group or individual in a exclusive, racist, homophobic or whatever corner. Exactly as you are trying to do right now.
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I'm sorry to be so old-fashioned, but public breastfeeding with exposed milk sources is a bit too much. I understand that it's a necessity, but why not cover? My wife managed to feed three of our children without exposing herself for the world to see. Apologies for the crude example, but that same mother would scream her lungs out if I take out my particulars to satisfy my need, just as or maybe even more urgent, at the nearest bush. But her necessity is a guaranteed right, and mine is public disturbance.
. You have a right to ask that person to cover up but I wouldn’t be too surprised if you got told where to go. 
KLM shouldn’t have to have a policy about it and cabin crew should not have to get involved. Same with people holding hands
It is like saying that a Ryanair staff member who was found to be an ex Sex industry worked somehow represents the whole values of the organisation if she says something to someone or the BA staff member who was a paedo and used his airline tickets to bring underage kids to the UK represent BA.
People love to be offended so they can write about something and climb on the outrage bus.
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Reagarding the breast feeding case: there are two sides of the story and in order not to escalate the matter, KLM decided not to enter into a discussion.
KLM has a no-nonsense, straight-forward approach with -as explained- a culture in which mutual understanding and compromises are key. Furthermore the laws that apply on board are one of the most liberal and minority friendly in the world.
We receive a lot of training in how to approach different cultures. However, when push comes to shove directions of the crew need to be followed. Nowadays indeed I am not surprised anymore that we as crew “are told to go somewhere”, due to selfishness of the respective passenger. Everybody thinks he can do what he wants because it is normal to him. You have no idea what we see on board; from painting nails to putting their bare feet on the seat in front.
Albeit not illegal, and maybe normal for the respective person, it could be disturbing for passengers that have a different point of view based on culture, religion, norms and values, you name it. Crew will most probably approach these passengers and will constructively start a conversation where understanding for their opinion is brought up (as we are westerners our self), but also is tried to let the respective pax gain insight in opposite views. Acceptance for the latter is what is missing a lot nowadays.
We are liberal and if someone complains about a gay couple holding hands, off course the person complaining will be told off. However, when a couple (gay or straight) is wildly making out, they could be asked to please stop to not offend others.
Those are the liberal norms and values of the Dutch and KLM.
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And yet pander216, here you are taking my words out of context 😂.
it isn’t something you should be involved in as cabin crew. The safety and comfort is your first priority everyone else needs to get a grip. You’re allowed to disagree I’ll still think you’re wrong .
it isn’t something you should be involved in as cabin crew. The safety and comfort is your first priority everyone else needs to get a grip. You’re allowed to disagree
I’ll still think you’re wrong .Because it perpetuates the notion that feeding, or breasts doing what they're actually for is in some way shameful. Particularly ridiculous because if you open any page of the inflight magazine you're likely to see an advert for something or other that has far more visible boob in it.
The issue is not with the person feeding but with the one who is offended.
So instead, I don't really see a problem with asking the person complaining to cover their head so they don't have to look. In fact, if someone is offended by gay people, they could do the same. Personally I'm hugely offended by nose picking, but I just don't look.
I've said this before - but the post was deleted, KLM Reservations/Social Media team is not based in the Netherlands and so could explain this "uninlightened" and clearly accidental tweet.
The issue is not with the person feeding but with the one who is offended.
So instead, I don't really see a problem with asking the person complaining to cover their head so they don't have to look. In fact, if someone is offended by gay people, they could do the same. Personally I'm hugely offended by nose picking, but I just don't look.
I've said this before - but the post was deleted, KLM Reservations/Social Media team is not based in the Netherlands and so could explain this "uninlightened" and clearly accidental tweet.
Albeit not illegal, and maybe normal for the respective person, it could be disturbing for passengers that have a different point of view based on culture, religion, norms and values, you name it. Crew will most probably approach these passengers and will constructively start a conversation where understanding for their opinion is brought up (as we are westerners our self), but also is tried to let the respective pax gain insight in opposite views. Acceptance for the latter is what is missing a lot nowadays.
A story true or not, an American Airline member of staff approached a complaining passenger who objected to someone discreetly feeding her child. AA staff member just approached said area and asked "Who is the person spending all their time looking at a lady's boobs and complaining she is feeding her child."
After silence she just said "Oh maybe it was in another area". Complainer kept quiet after that.
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"safety and comfort is your first priority" - the problem in this case is that making a person comfortable would make another one uncomfortable, so it's a very complicated issue to address.
I hope that in the not too distant future all cultures will get closer to a common set of values, making this kind of conflicts less likely.
KLM's problem is that it doesn't seem to know whether it has a policy or not. 
One could be forgiven for hoping that something posted under the "official global account of KLM", or indeed this on klm.com: KLM responds to breastfeeding questions wasn't just some summer intern making it up as he/she goes along.
But apparently it is, or so we're told.
One could be forgiven for hoping that something posted under the "official global account of KLM", or indeed this on klm.com: KLM responds to breastfeeding questions wasn't just some summer intern making it up as he/she goes along.
But apparently it is, or so we're told.
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In a nut shell, we have created new special interest groups that are, as in the past, "More than Equal" where there is a conflict between beliefs / social modes etc.
In the case of the nursing baby, if the mother was not prepared to accommodate the request to cover up (more than equal), then I guess the crew could have simply issued a "night mask" to the complaining passenger to be used while the feeding was going on.
I live in hope that the pendulum would / may sometime go to a center position where everyone attempts to consider and comply with the beliefs of others, of course that will never happen but...….
In the case of the nursing baby, if the mother was not prepared to accommodate the request to cover up (more than equal), then I guess the crew could have simply issued a "night mask" to the complaining passenger to be used while the feeding was going on.
I live in hope that the pendulum would / may sometime go to a center position where everyone attempts to consider and comply with the beliefs of others, of course that will never happen but...….
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Once a passenger complains to the cabin crew, the cabin crew is already involved. And in today's world, no matter what they do next, including nothing, somebody will be offended.
I hope that in the not too distant future all cultures will get closer to a common set of values, making this kind of conflicts less likely.