KLM Another Social Media Shocker
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KLM Another Social Media Shocker
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...box=1563561568
Not content with tellibg mothers that they can only breastfeed at the discretion of other passengers, KLM have now told a passenger (And therefore the world) that homosexual couples will be treated the same.
Not content with tellibg mothers that they can only breastfeed at the discretion of other passengers, KLM have now told a passenger (And therefore the world) that homosexual couples will be treated the same.
To give KLM a little bit of credit, they responded:
First of all, we'd like to stress that we take this very seriously. We're currently investigating this reply as it totally does not represent our official point of view at all. We completely understand this reply is offending and we distance ourselves from it.
Last edited by DaveReidUK; 22nd Jul 2019 at 07:40. Reason: typo
The culture of an organisation is set at the top (Board, CEO, etc) and diffuses down through active policies or through the passive acceptance of practices.
So far no one has produced a better explanation!
So far no one has produced a better explanation!
KLM has only 1 base, Amsterdam. All crew is based there. More than 90% have the dutch nationality. You can therefore expect a dutch approach, by the crew, to these situations concerning LHBTI and/or breastfeeding. And the netherlands are well known for very liberal world views.
These outsourced social media employees can keep sending terrible responses. But it does not reflect the actual on board situation.
Very disturbing that some dork can send an e-mail like that, and the rest of pprune/the world believes that it really represents reality on board.
These outsourced social media employees can keep sending terrible responses. But it does not reflect the actual on board situation.
Very disturbing that some dork can send an e-mail like that, and the rest of pprune/the world believes that it really represents reality on board.
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KLM has only 1 base, Amsterdam. All crew is based there. More than 90% have the dutch nationality. You can therefore expect a dutch approach, by the crew, to these situations concerning LHBTI and/or breastfeeding. And the netherlands are well known for very liberal world views.
These outsourced social media employees can keep sending terrible responses. But it does not reflect the actual on board situation.
Very disturbing that some dork can send an e-mail like that, and the rest of pprune/the world believes that it really represents reality on board.
These outsourced social media employees can keep sending terrible responses. But it does not reflect the actual on board situation.
Very disturbing that some dork can send an e-mail like that, and the rest of pprune/the world believes that it really represents reality on board.
Right. There really isn't a chance in the world that the cited message is consistent with KLM policy. Remember that the Netherlands was the first nation on the planet to welcome LGBT members in military service (1974!) and also the first country to legalize gay marriage. Also, breastfeeding in public is common and widespread in the Netherlands. The offending message just doesn't seem "very Dutch."
What is the "PC" attitude to breast feeding these days?
I personally think a mother should be free to do it anywhere. But I also think it's not too much to ask that some kind of shawl is used or a nursing top which is discreet.
I was having a conversation with a mother recently and she picked up the child and proceeded to breast feed and I didn't see anything due to the top she had on. I thought those types of tops are very clever and avoid awkwardness for all.
I personally think a mother should be free to do it anywhere. But I also think it's not too much to ask that some kind of shawl is used or a nursing top which is discreet.
I was having a conversation with a mother recently and she picked up the child and proceeded to breast feed and I didn't see anything due to the top she had on. I thought those types of tops are very clever and avoid awkwardness for all.
What is the "PC" attitude to breast feeding these days?
I personally think a mother should be free to do it anywhere. But I also think it's not too much to ask that some kind of shawl is used or a nursing top which is discreet.
I was having a conversation with a mother recently and she picked up the child and proceeded to breast feed and I didn't see anything due to the top she had on. I thought those types of tops are very clever and avoid awkwardness for all.
I personally think a mother should be free to do it anywhere. But I also think it's not too much to ask that some kind of shawl is used or a nursing top which is discreet.
I was having a conversation with a mother recently and she picked up the child and proceeded to breast feed and I didn't see anything due to the top she had on. I thought those types of tops are very clever and avoid awkwardness for all.
The right to breastfeed vs the right to do so even if it offends another passenger, who may come from a less enlightened culture.
I also do not think that asking a mother to cover-up is such a huge imposition - not too much to ask in a multi-cultural tube.
Those who may be offended or are made uncomfortable can not walk away.
The effort required "not to offend" is so small that I wonder at the mindset that says "I'm offended. It's my right. I'm gonna........."
Strange, then, that the clumsy and tactless breastfeeding tweet came from the "official global account of KLM".
https://twitter.com/KLM/status/1151049902673321984
https://twitter.com/KLM/status/1151049902673321984
I'm just not seeing it.
Alternatively, just consider for a moment the breathtaking arrogance of an airline that considers it in its gift to "permit" a mother to feed her baby on board.
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Seriously?! Tired of people getting offended by everything
“Those who are determined to be ‘offended’ will discover a provocation somewhere. We cannot possibly adjust enough to please the fanatics, and it is degrading to make the attempt.”
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I personally think a mother should be free to do it anywhere. But I also think it's not too much to ask that some kind of shawl is used or a nursing top which is discreet.
The issue is not with the person feeding but with the one who is offended.
So instead, I don't really see a problem with asking the person complaining to cover their head so they don't have to look. In fact, if someone is offended by gay people, they could do the same. Personally I'm hugely offended by nose picking, but I just don't look.
I've said this before - but the post was deleted, KLM Reservations/Social Media team is not based in the Netherlands and so could explain this "uninlightened" and clearly accidental tweet.
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The issue is not with the person feeding but with the one who is offended.
Breastfeeding normal. Checked
Some offended by it. (for whatever reason, usually "Religion") Checked
Policy: you`re allowed to do so, but - in the interest of in a aluminium tube doing 400 miles an hour in - 68° at 37000ft without police force nearby - we might have to ask you to cover yourself, should an idiot near you make a fuzz, feel offend and can´t be calmed down. Reasonable and fine, checked.
What was the problem again ?
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I´m sorry, but the issue is the "snowflaking" all around. Someone wrote that it really is important for the mother not only to be allowed to breast feed, but to be supported. Whatever that means (does the person sitting next to her have to hold her breasts ?)
Breastfeeding normal. Checked
Some offended by it. (for whatever reason, usually "Religion") Checked
Policy: you`re allowed to do so, but - in the interest of in a aluminium tube doing 400 miles an hour in - 68° at 37000ft without police force nearby - we might have to ask you to cover yourself, should an idiot near you make a fuzz, feel offend and can´t be calmed down. Reasonable and fine, checked.
What was the problem again ?
Breastfeeding normal. Checked
Some offended by it. (for whatever reason, usually "Religion") Checked
Policy: you`re allowed to do so, but - in the interest of in a aluminium tube doing 400 miles an hour in - 68° at 37000ft without police force nearby - we might have to ask you to cover yourself, should an idiot near you make a fuzz, feel offend and can´t be calmed down. Reasonable and fine, checked.
What was the problem again ?
How’s about doing nothing and let adults learn to get over themselves?
Or having a policy of automatically upgrading feeding mums who get complained about.
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Nope, you can’t use safety as a reason. An angry mum and a crying baby are far more dangerous than a mildly offended old man.
How’s about doing nothing and let adults learn to get over themselves? Or having a policy of automatically upgrading feeding mums who get complained about.
Are you serious? First of all, there is just as little need for the mum to be angry as for anyone else to be offended. Aggressive/unruly pax in any form are becoming more and more of a problem. So yes, any dispute on board is a threat to safety.
Unfortunatly, these days the chance of “adults to get over themselves” is quite slim. From very progressive to very conservative sides of society, everybody is only concerned with his/her own agenda. They are only able to approach matters from their own point of view and disregard arguments from the opposing side. Like your argument points this out so strikingly; why would the respective mum be allowed to be angry but anyone else not?
KLM has a very strong market in the America’s, Asia and Africa with also a lot of transfer pax within Europe. Problem with this fact is that both very progressive and conservative people could be on board of one aircraft.
KLMs utmost priority is safety. According the Tokio Convention the commander is allowed to give any instruction he deems necessary to secure safety on board. If any adult (progressive, conservative, drunk, arrogant or whatever), is unable to engage in an adult conversation and respect both the safety of other occupants and crew I will not hesitate to act accordingly. Upgrading anyone who shows sign of unruly behaviour is not one of them.
Furthermore, being progressive and liberal the Dutch very much understand how to deal with people who have a conservative view. Both Muslim and Christian communities are heavily represented in our small country. To make compromises between different parties is such a significant part of Dutch culture, that it has its own verb: “polderen”.
The main point is that we need to stop being selfish and only care about our own point of view without any respect for other viewing points as long as they are within Dutch law, which as said is very very liberal. I despise people provoking on social media just to try and see if they can create a row by pushing anyone in a “homophobic”, “anti-LGBTI”, “racist” or whatever more corner. KLM and KLM staff are far from that.
KLMs philosophy is “moving your world”. As frontline staff (cockpit, cabin, ground) we do our utmost best to translate the liberal, free and welcoming Dutch culture on board of our aircraft. We try to take the extra step to make everybody feel appreciated and address any needs our pax have. That might involve compromises to keep everyone on board happy since any middle aged old man is just as important to us as a breastfeeding mother. That is called “inclusion”.
I won’t allow a troll army to pull any comment on board or tweet by social media staff out of context, just for the sake of their agenda.
Last edited by Pander216; 23rd Jul 2019 at 10:05.
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No I’m not, it points at how absurd the discussion is, using safety as an excuse for every little thing is just as absurd though and weakens the value of the argument when you ask someone to do something that genuinely is a safety issue. Covering up just isn’t.
I will admit to being wrong the next time a diversion is caused by gay people or a breastfeeding mum. It is patently ridiculous and to have a corporate policy on it is also ridiculous.
KLM don’t have one, this was an embarrassing mistake.
Breastfeeding is enshrined European in law, so is the right to love whoever you want. Happily KLM respect it, individuals within the corporate structure don’t know it and it points to a problem within their social media and reservations team.
I’ve always found KLM crew to be fab people, this isn’t an issue with them is it.
I will admit to being wrong the next time a diversion is caused by gay people or a breastfeeding mum. It is patently ridiculous and to have a corporate policy on it is also ridiculous.
KLM don’t have one, this was an embarrassing mistake.
Breastfeeding is enshrined European in law, so is the right to love whoever you want. Happily KLM respect it, individuals within the corporate structure don’t know it and it points to a problem within their social media and reservations team.
I’ve always found KLM crew to be fab people, this isn’t an issue with them is it.