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Extinction Rebellion are threatening to shut down Heathrow Airport with drones

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Extinction Rebellion are threatening to shut down Heathrow Airport with drones

Old 4th Jun 2019, 03:54
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Perfect! That’s good information, ( minus the snippy comments at the end which add emotion and detract from the discussion), thank you very much, you’ve help me take one more step towards a position on this complex topic.
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 04:13
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 73qanda View Post
Perfect! That’s good information, ( minus the snippy comments at the end which add emotion and detract from the discussion), thank you very much, you’ve help me take one more step towards a position on this complex topic.
Well here's another snippy comment.

Couldn't you have done that research for yourself? It only took me a few seconds to google "2015 NASA antarctic study" and find the study and the author's analysis of the data. And relatively easy to filter out the denier's comments and find the actual scientific review of the study.

It's easy to go onto one of the denial sites and endlessly regurgitate their taking points ad nauseum without any critical thought, as so many have done on this forum. For those who are genuinely wanting to see how flimsy the arguments against the science are please look at this website, Skeptical Science. Hundred's of anti-science arguments clearly debunked.

After reading through a lot of scientific analysis and research lately I'm now convinced that anyone who claims they have researched the issue and still thinks that climate change is a hoax is on the same level as moon landing skeptics, chemtrailers and anti-vaxxers. However I'm convinced that despite all the scientific research I try to bring into this conversation there are those who will just point blank refuse to acknowledge the truth, be it for reasons of money, politics or pride.
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 04:55
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Proper science

Iím still waiting for someone to create a glass tank with 0.004% CO2 and one with 0.003% CO2 and see how much hotter one gets than the other!
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 05:13
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KiloB View Post
Iím still waiting for someone to create a glass tank with 0.004% CO2 and one with 0.003% CO2 and see how much hotter one gets than the other!
Climate scientists wonít be creating that experiment because if you had a primary school understanding of science you would understand that theory is irrelevant to climate change:

An enhanced greenhouse effect from CO2 has been confirmed by multiple lines of empirical evidence
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 06:13
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur View Post

Why wouldnít I be surprised to find that the whole rabble are funded by PRC and their fellow travellers. The Chinese have always thought long term and in many strands, why not try to undermine British industry or at least hamstring it, by tying our hands in environmental standards they have absolutely no intention whatsoever of implementing themselves.
Considered post not a rant!
Be lucky
David
Which British industry should China be worried about?
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 06:21
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wrench1 View Post
And if CO2 is such a bad thing (i.e., plants can't live without it), how many tonnes of CO2 does the additional 6B inhabitants put out in a years time in the last 150 years?
I think putting down 1 billion people is not a solution that will be considered nowadays. Sorry.
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 06:38
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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May I suggest that this topic has morphed into a climate change discussion and whilst relevant in some forums, might be parked elsewhere on this one.
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 06:45
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gove N.T. View Post
May I suggest that this topic has morphed into a climate change discussion and whilst relevant in some forums, might be parked elsewhere on this one.
I was just going to say that this is probably the best example of thread drift ever.
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 12:02
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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ii
Originally Posted by up_down_n_out View Post
The polar ice caps are NOT melting.!
Well, free country and all that, Out. To paraphrase Will Rogers, I just know what I read in the scientific journals.
https://blogs.agu.org/geospace/2019/...wYKb7f2ULuqVow

I think dr dre makes a good point about "people who are older and don't think they'll be affected by any real catastrophic effects of climate change when they occur." I'm 64 and have a lifetime of peace and stability behind my lucky self. Even if the chickens come home to roost tomorrow, well, I've had my life. If I were 20 I can imagine feeling pretty bitter and subversive toward Business as Usual.

In response to 73quanda -- especially given his mention of NASA -- and his plea for up-to-date sources -- here's a link from something NASA has put up that I copied, like, 30 seconds ago: https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Obviously you can't hope for all scientific data to agree all the time. That's what makes science so much FUN and why its wheels turn so slowly.

I live in the Alps. When I first moved to these parts almost 40 years ago, you could go to Mont Blanc and take a cog railway up to the enormous final stage of the glacier. There's a hotel up there built in 1880 (mark that year). From there it was a short jaunt down to the ice.
NOW you go up to the same place. They have put in a freaking cable-car since the ice-level has fallen so far. But then it kept on falling, so there's an endless succession of steel steps down to what's left of the glacier. Then you have to climb back up (only the fittest survive).
All that in 40 years. And they have painted every last one of those years on the bare rock just to drive the point home.
Do I need a PhD to notice this?

Let's all remember that climate is by definition a stable Trend, and can't be upset by inherently chaotic weather events, such as a bad winter.

As for Thread Drift, if global heating weren't the biggest challenge going, probably only a small minority (with whom I might sympathize) would oppose a third runway.
But it is. So you can't separate the two issues.

Last edited by VFR Only Please; 4th Jun 2019 at 13:00.
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 12:24
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks VFR, much appreciated.
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 14:50
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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I certainly don't condone the actions of this group but I think it is a mistake to build a third runway at Heathrow. I think a new airport in the Thames Estuary would be a better option given air pollution levels in London.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ollution-death
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 17:51
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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L
Originally Posted by cwatters View Post
I certainly don't condone the actions of this group but I think it is a mistake to build a third runway at Heathrow. I think a new airport in the Thames Estuary would be a better option given air pollution levels in London.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ollution-death
The south circular is the inner orbital major traffic route established for many more years than this poor little girl had lived. She lived 25metres from it. A barrister would argue that any responsible parent whose child suffered from a respiratory disease was negligent in remaining so close to a major traffic artery, hard to disagree
In the same circumstances I doubt there is a city in the world that complies with the pollution limits placed upon it



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Old 11th Jun 2019, 09:39
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Follow the (climate deniers') money (just under a billion dollars each year):

a combination of both industry and conservative philanthropies that are funding this process, and what they did was they borrowed a great deal of the strategy and tactics that came out of the tobacco industry’s efforts to prevent action on the health impacts of smoking.

What you see is the tactics that this movement uses were developed and tested in the tobacco industry first, and now they’re being applied to the climate change movement, and in fact, some of the same people and some of the same organizations that were involved in the tobacco issue are also involved in climate change.


Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...2MDCT1zss9S.99
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 10:49
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently the co2 emissions from the gas used to sedate the patent in a 8 hour operation is the equivalent of driving 4206 miles

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...on-and-pounds/

will the extinction protesters start blockading hospitals ????
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 12:40
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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will the extinction protesters start blockading hospitals ????
​​​​​​I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. Life saving or cosmetic?
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 17:40
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KiloB View Post
Iím still waiting for someone to create a glass tank with 0.004% CO2 and one with 0.003% CO2 and see how much hotter one gets than the other!
Why do you think that would be good demonstration? If you wanted to compare two duvets you wouldn't measure the temperature of the duvet itself would you? Surely you would want to measure how warm a person under it gets? or the heat loss through the duvet?

You can block most of the IR light emitted by a person using a narrow stream of 100% pure C02. Video demo here..

https://www.pbslearningmedia.org/res.../#.XP_ZK-RwZoI

So what concentration of CO2 is needed in a 16km thick layer of air?
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 17:59
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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As I understand it CO2 is such a good absorber of IR that (even at pre industrialisation levels of C02) it only takes about 25 meters of the atmosphere to scatter most of the IR radiated by the earth (http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=1169 ). This means energy is only radiated into space from high up in the atmosphere, where the air and CO2 is thin enough.

Its been suggested that adding CO2 raises the effective height from which IR energy is radiated. Unfortunately the higher you go the colder it gets and IR radiation is proportional to the fourth power of temperature (T^4).

If less energy is radiated into space the temperature of the planet must increase until the energy lost from the earth once again matches that arriving from the sun.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 18:11
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by scr1 View Post
Apparently the co2 emissions from the gas used to sedate the patent in a 8 hour operation is the equivalent of driving 4206 miles
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...on-and-pounds/
will the extinction protesters start blockading hospitals ????
No. All they need do is send the article to their local hospital and encourage them to change the gas they use. Quote from that article...

Historically they, and the wider NHS, have used Desflurane, an agent 60 times more polluting per hour of anaesthesia then a similar gas, Sevoflurane.
apparently Sevoflurane is also cheaper.

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Old 11th Jun 2019, 19:47
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cwatters View Post
No. All they need do is send the article to their local hospital and encourage them to change the gas they use. Quote from that article...



apparently Sevoflurane is also cheaper.
Fortunately, both climate nor costs(*) are the leading factors in deciding which anesthesiac to use.
Both gases are usable as anesthesia, but have some vastly different applications and results.

(*)Mostly
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 19:58
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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We need to stop starving plants. It’s so cruel. 1000 parts per mill will get us halfway there
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