Atlas Air 767 down/Texas
My speculation, and it is only speculation, is that turbulence was encountered while a seat swap was in progress and one of those involved in the swap put out a hand to steady themselves and pushed the throttles full forward. Speculation is based on lots of time in flight test where many seats swaps were observed. Who wouldn't have wanted to give the newbie a bit of stick time?
Of course that speculation is meaningless if all crew were found strapped in their appropriate seats.
Of course that speculation is meaningless if all crew were found strapped in their appropriate seats.
No idea what that was but you don’t just do “seat swaps” for a jolly and certainly not at that stage of the flight.
Seat swaps with relief crew occur at cruise and the “landing” crew is seated 1-1.5 hrs out.
350-500 miles.

Probe heat is automatic on the 767 (all heated probes). Any probe heat failure generates an EICAS message.

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You’ve posted previously you were involved in something related to the MD-80.
No idea what that was but you don’t just do “seat swaps” for a jolly and certainly not at that stage of the flight.
Seat swaps with relief crew occur at cruise and the “landing” crew is seated 1-1.5 hrs out.
350-500 miles.


Exactly so this whole seat swap lost your balance or the jumpseater wanted to take a picture and fell onto the controls is just utter jibberish.
Frankely is astounding people even post this and are serious.
Frankely is astounding people even post this and are serious.

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Bernd
(aerospace safety engineer, accident analyst, private pilot)


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This has been done to death and back. With that you'd throw away all the valuable contributions of engineers, ATC personnel, psychologists, sociologists, human-machine interface specialists, safety practitioners, and even *gasp* regulators and managers, etc., and end up a pilots-only echo chamber. I guess you can have that if you want, but that is not what this place is intended to be.
Bernd
(aerospace safety engineer, accident analyst, private pilot)
Bernd
(aerospace safety engineer, accident analyst, private pilot)
OK, make it the “ professional people in aviation “ forum. I’m sure no one wants to discourage our colleagues in all the areas, but maybe try and stifle the spotters, nutters and those who wear tin foil hats

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As gums might say, FCeng defers ...

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Not to answer for EXDAC, but I flew Capt on the Mad Dog for 12 years and swapped legs if there was another qualified Capt on the crew list (rare), but never swapped seats. I did go to the lav a few times
but only in cruise and nobody sat in my seat. If the sequence was over 8 hrs flying or 14 hrs duty (very rare) we had a relief crew, but the seat exchange was done at the gate.


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Apparently Wall Street and Business Insider reporting NTSB stating pilot error as the cause of the crash. In the final minutes, pilots increase thrust passing through wx, overreact to nose up pitch due to thrust increase, end up 49deg nose down. NTSB saying reaction very strange for experienced aviators, as is obvious. Very strange

Salute!
Couldn't resist.....
by ater'pester"
Well, I still consider myself a "professional". And had a little bit of time as a government-paid triggerman that allowed me to gain a degree of experience with aerodynamics and avionics and.... All in planes that I could not stand up in or walk to the loo ( deference to the Poms) or grab a fresh cup of coffee. So for a good test try sitting in a small chair with oxygen mask on and maybe a relief tube to help, or a box lunch so the crumbs clogged up your valve in the mask, for 13 or 14 hours.
Just my "whine of the day" at the pester!
Gums remembers....
Jez thot we needed a bit of light commentary and this thing is very sad.
Couldn't resist.....
by ater'pester"
Seats have to be swapped in cruise for a long flight that requires a relief pilot.
Just my "whine of the day" at the pester!
Gums remembers....
Jez thot we needed a bit of light commentary and this thing is very sad.
Last edited by gums; 19th Mar 2019 at 05:05.

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It is very strange. The only thing that comes to mind is a DC-8 crash in the 80s or 90s where fatigue might have made the pilots “punch drunk”. So we would have to know what the pilots’ duty day was like. If a tag leg after an all nighter with delays in between flights they would be zombies. NTSB will let you know someday. Nobody on atlas dare chime in if that’s the case.

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It is very strange. The only thing that comes to mind is a DC-8 crash in the 80s or 90s where fatigue might have made the pilots “punch drunk”. So we would have to know what the pilots’ duty day was like. If a tag leg after an all nighter with delays in between flights they would be zombies. NTSB will let you know someday. Nobody on atlas dare chime in if that’s the case.

So who exactly were the crew complement?
As for the chatter about changing crew positions:
a. How many crew were assigned to the flight, and how many were type-rated and current on type (I may have missed that somewhere in the posts)?
b. Was the jump-seater (assumption) rated and current on type with the operator?
I opine that it would be a very "courageous" captain to permit a non-type rated company pilot to occupy either CM1 or CM2 seat at any stage of the flight.
I wait to be enlightened.

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Thats what the aircraft did but we don’t know what the crew did. All nighter from somewhere,sit till they get their 11am departure ready for you, I would be a zombie. I only had to experience zombie land once to know that you are far from 100% and it differs with crews. But all guesswork. NTSB will have the story.

Apparently Wall Street and Business Insider reporting NTSB stating pilot error as the cause of the crash.
From the one that you linked to:
"Robert Sumwalt, the NTSB's chairman, predicted it would take more than a year of work to determine the cause of the crash"

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More than a year for the final report, probably. But by the preliminary report which should be out in a couple of weeks, there will be some pretty strong hints.

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Because it's an air carrier accident, sometime prior to the final report the NTSB will open a docket. The docket will have a wealth of factual reports including the CVR transcript.
