Atlas Air 767 down/Texas
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 2,355
Originally Posted by EXDAC
My speculation, and it is only speculation, is that turbulence was encountered while a seat swap was in progress and one of those involved in the swap put out a hand to steady themselves and pushed the throttles full forward. Speculation is based on lots of time in flight test where many seats swaps were observed. Who wouldn't have wanted to give the newbie a bit of stick time?
Of course that speculation is meaningless if all crew were found strapped in their appropriate seats.
Of course that speculation is meaningless if all crew were found strapped in their appropriate seats.
No idea what that was but you don’t just do “seat swaps” for a jolly and certainly not at that stage of the flight.
Seat swaps with relief crew occur at cruise and the “landing” crew is seated 1-1.5 hrs out.
350-500 miles.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 64
Posts: 2,333
Originally Posted by Australopithecus
Is the pitot or “probe” heat on a 767 auto or manually selected? Does faulty probe heat trigger a caution? Just wondering if a blocked pitot on descent yielded an alarmingly low airspeed indication prompting an overreaction with thrust and attitude?
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: America
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by B2N2
You’ve posted previously you were involved in something related to the MD-80.
No idea what that was but you don’t just do “seat swaps” for a jolly and certainly not at that stage of the flight.
Seat swaps with relief crew occur at cruise and the “landing” crew is seated 1-1.5 hrs out.
350-500 miles.
but only in cruise and nobody sat in my seat. If the sequence was over 8 hrs flying or 14 hrs duty (very rare) we had a relief crew, but the seat exchange was done at the gate.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 531
Originally Posted by Murexway
Well, the first part of the name is "Professional Pilots" . Wish there was a way to enforce that....
Bernd
(aerospace safety engineer, accident analyst, private pilot)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by bsieker
This has been done to death and back. With that you'd throw away all the valuable contributions of engineers, ATC personnel, psychologists, sociologists, human-machine interface specialists, safety practitioners, and even *gasp* regulators and managers, etc., and end up a pilots-only echo chamber. I guess you can have that if you want, but that is not what this place is intended to be.
Bernd
(aerospace safety engineer, accident analyst, private pilot)
Bernd
(aerospace safety engineer, accident analyst, private pilot)
OK, make it the “ professional people in aviation “ forum. I’m sure no one wants to discourage our colleagues in all the areas, but maybe try and stifle the spotters, nutters and those who wear tin foil hats
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,348
Originally Posted by Meester proach
OK, make it the “ professional people in aviation “ forum. I’m sure no one wants to discourage our colleagues in all the areas, but maybe try and stifle the spotters, nutters and those who wear tin foil hats
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek
Do you want to exclude those of us with no medical due to silver hair ?
As gums might say, FCeng defers ...
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,195
Originally Posted by Murexway
Not to answer for EXDAC, but I flew Capt on the Mad Dog for 12 years and swapped legs if there was another qualified Capt on the crew list (rare), but never swapped seats. I did go to the lav a few times but only in cruise and nobody sat in my seat. If the sequence was over 8 hrs flying or 14 hrs duty (very rare) we had a relief crew, but the seat exchange was done at the gate.
but only in cruise and nobody sat in my seat. If the sequence was over 8 hrs flying or 14 hrs duty (very rare) we had a relief crew, but the seat exchange was done at the gate.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,803
Originally Posted by aterpster
Seats have to be swapped in cruise for a long flight that requires a relief pilot.
After four years flying the MD80 I can assure
you it doesn’t have the legs that would require an inflight seat swap for a relief pilot
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: ZRH
Posts: 0
Apparently Wall Street and Business Insider reporting NTSB stating pilot error as the cause of the crash. In the final minutes, pilots increase thrust passing through wx, overreact to nose up pitch due to thrust increase, end up 49deg nose down. NTSB saying reaction very strange for experienced aviators, as is obvious. Very strange
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: florida
Age: 76
Posts: 1,059
Salute!
Couldn't resist.....
by ater'pester"
Well, I still consider myself a "professional". And had a little bit of time as a government-paid triggerman that allowed me to gain a degree of experience with aerodynamics and avionics and.... All in planes that I could not stand up in or walk to the loo ( deference to the Poms) or grab a fresh cup of coffee. So for a good test try sitting in a small chair with oxygen mask on and maybe a relief tube to help, or a box lunch so the crumbs clogged up your valve in the mask, for 13 or 14 hours.
Just my "whine of the day" at the pester!
Gums remembers....
Jez thot we needed a bit of light commentary and this thing is very sad.
Couldn't resist.....
by ater'pester"
Seats have to be swapped in cruise for a long flight that requires a relief pilot.
Just my "whine of the day" at the pester!
Gums remembers....
Jez thot we needed a bit of light commentary and this thing is very sad.
Last edited by gums; 19th Mar 2019 at 04:05.
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Laredo, TX
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by stilton
After four years flying the MD80 I can assure
you it doesn’t have the legs that would require an inflight seat swap for a relief pilot
Join Date: May 2008
Location: us
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by jimtx
It is very strange. The only thing that comes to mind is a DC-8 crash in the 80s or 90s where fatigue might have made the pilots “punch drunk”. So we would have to know what the pilots’ duty day was like. If a tag leg after an all nighter with delays in between flights they would be zombies. NTSB will let you know someday. Nobody on atlas dare chime in if that’s the case.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Block 49
Posts: 28
So who exactly were the crew complement?
Originally Posted by stilton
After four years flying the MD80 I can assure
you it doesn’t have the legs that would require an inflight seat swap for a relief pilot
As for the chatter about changing crew positions:
a. How many crew were assigned to the flight, and how many were type-rated and current on type (I may have missed that somewhere in the posts)?
b. Was the jump-seater (assumption) rated and current on type with the operator?
I opine that it would be a very "courageous" captain to permit a non-type rated company pilot to occupy either CM1 or CM2 seat at any stage of the flight.
I wait to be enlightened.
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Laredo, TX
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by runner1021
Looks like the aircraft operated KONT/KMIA/KIAH. Assuming this crew flew it out of KONT they'd be looking at about a 10 hour duty day.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,507
Originally Posted by Skyborne Flyer
Apparently Wall Street and Business Insider reporting NTSB stating pilot error as the cause of the crash.
From the one that you linked to:
"Robert Sumwalt, the NTSB's chairman, predicted it would take more than a year of work to determine the cause of the crash"
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CFE
Age: 60
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
You must be reading a different article.
From the one that you linked to:
Which do you think is more likely to be something that the NTSB would actually say ?
From the one that you linked to:
Which do you think is more likely to be something that the NTSB would actually say ?
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,195
Originally Posted by valvanuz
More than a year for the final report, probably. But by the preliminary report which should be out in a couple of weeks, there will be some pretty strong hints.
