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Norwegian Air Boeing 737MAX8 stuck in Iran

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Norwegian Air Boeing 737MAX8 stuck in Iran

Old 16th Dec 2018, 12:49
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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ManaAdasystem

I don’t quite understand why an engine change would be a nightmare, would you care to illuminate us as to why this might be the case ?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 12:53
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
Dear me!
Were to start.
Iran is a ICAO country and at all times adhere to international agreements with other ICAO country, namely Norway.
AOG aircraft parts are not " exported", they are often even held at outbases at Bonded stores as agreed with the host country.
Norway and Iran has no issues other then any active UN sanctioned restrictions of which there is non in the aviation operation part of things as per date.
This has NOTHING to do with USA and I am pretty sure Norwegian is fully capable to solve the logistics without any help whatsoever from that side. Furthermore it is Norwegian property that is repaired in an ICAO country with Norwegian parts, to retrieve in a safe and orderly manner to Norway.
Anyone that has a problem with this concept clearly are not remotely familiar with how international aviation works.
This is not remotely similar to Carters predicament!
Nothing to see here.
Regards
Cpt B
Norway

PS Yes, a single engine takeoff is no problem, If you are mad or in a Sim!
Been there done that!
DS
So this is a Norwegian Norwegian aircraft operated by Norwegian Norwegian?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 12:57
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
I don’t quite understand why an engine change would be a nightmare, would you care to illuminate us as to why this might be the case ?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I believe the logistics and red tape involved will be excessive.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:03
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
AOG aircraft parts are not " exported", they are often even held at outbases at Bonded stores as agreed with the host country.
Norway and Iran has no issues other then any active UN sanctioned restrictions of which there is non in the aviation operation part of things as per date.
This has NOTHING to do with USA
With all respect you have no idea about customs regulations nor US sanctions mechanism. If Norwegian would like to change the engine down there in official way, it would take them to get Donald to make a direct order to OFAC to solve it before the new year.
ps there are “other” ways too - which everyone else is using but if you want to be 100% compliant you should not use them.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:16
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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This particular airframe is wholly owned by an Irish Finance Company, registered in Norway and operated by Norwegian Air Norway.
TBH so far the Iranians have been very supportive and helpful and theres no issues working on said airframe.

Got to snigger at some of the comments on here especially the Usa comments.
A little knowledge .........................
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:19
  #26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
What part of the QRH statement “ land at the nearest suitable airport “ is confusing You ?
Suitable?

"The @Fly_Nowegian Boeing 737-8MAX performed a ground engine running/taxi test at Shiraz (SYZ) today." -Twitter
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:27
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wheelbarrow View Post
This particular airframe is wholly owned by an Irish Finance Company, registered in Norway and operated by Norwegian Air Norway.
TBH so far the Iranians have been very supportive and helpful and theres no issues working on said airframe.

Got to snigger at some of the comments on here especially the Usa comments.
A little knowledge .........................
The fact you resorting to the owner, country of operator and aircraft registration clearly shows you are not aware about what US sanction mechanism is. Try to google something about OFAC, “substantial US interest” and “threshold on the parts of US origin”.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:51
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Originally Posted by climber314 View Post
Suitable?
"Suitable" has nothing to do with politics/spare parts/...

here is the definition:
  1. Adequate - an adequate airport is an airport, which the operator and TCCA consider to be adequate, having regard to the performance requirements applicable at the expected landing weight. In particular, it should be anticipated that at the expected time of use:
    1. the airport will be available, and equipped with the necessary ancillary services, such as ATS, lighting, communications, weather reporting, navaids and emergency services; and
    2. at least one approach aid will be available for an instrument approach.
  2. Suitable - a suitable airport is an adequate airport with weather reports, forecasts or combination thereof, indicating that the weather conditions will be at or above minima as specified AppendixB of this document, and field condition reports indicate that a safe landing can be accomplished during the period of intended operation.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 13:56
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The Persians are some of the nicest, polite, and helpful people on the planet, unfortunately the [censored]-up US foreign policy keeps on screwing them and so no wonder they get anti.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 14:21
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Originally Posted by Capt Ecureuil View Post
The Persians are some of the nicest, polite, and helpful people on the planet, unfortunately the [censored]-up US foreign policy keeps on screwing them and so no wonder they get anti.
I completely agree with Capt. Ecureuil on this, having done a couple of weeks work for Mahan Air in Tehran a while back we where treated very well by the locals.
As for spares, I can't see it being a problem, nothing is being sold or staying in the country so all that should be required is a bit of paperwork stating that the parts/tools etc. are for temporary import/export only, normally a Carnet ATA should do the job.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 14:33
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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CargoOne
If you indeed are the nr 1 cargo pilot in Europe , it could be that you know something about customs.
What I know with regards to spare parts , repair and AOG is , may I brag, a tad above nothing.
What is more: What I know about international politics is above anything Donald could ever dream of....

The USA has no problem with Bjørn Kjos in Norwegian fixing his broken Boeing in Iran and fly it home , on the contrary, they would DEMAND him to fix this high teck wonder so it could be removed from the evil people of Iran. Dont you think!

This recovery will be done properly and swiftly according to longterm International agreements, most of which the US honor.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 14:41
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Manadasystem
I like Norwegian Air Shuttle or NAS as we called it.
But the use of Norwegian is getting a bit annoying!
Regards
Cpt B
Norwegian by birth , not by employment!
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 15:34
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post


The fact you resorting to the owner, country of operator and aircraft registration clearly shows you are not aware about what US sanction mechanism is. Try to google something about OFAC, “substantial US interest” and “threshold on the parts of US origin”.
You mean that the US would rather gift a whole aircraft to Iran instead of having Norvegian repair it and bring it home?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 17:17
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Originally Posted by arketip View Post
You mean that the US would rather gift a whole aircraft to Iran instead of having Norvegian repair it and bring it home?
I mean that doing everything as per book to get a Leap engine shipped to and changed at Shiraz is not a quick nor cheap exercise. There is nothing in relevant US sanctions which says “Mr Kjoss is exempted”. I very much doubt there are spare Leap engines outside OEM possession at this stage, and you dont ask Snecma or GE to release an engine with Shiraz airport as destination on airwaybill just like business as usual. I have been dealing with similar situations myself and it takes time, money and pain.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 18:56
  #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Newcomer2 View Post
"Suitable" has nothing to do with politics/spare parts/...

I don't agree it's that black and white. There's a number of "practical considerations" that could factor into a diversion decision.

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/w...e-the-closest/
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 19:30
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
What part of the QRH statement “ land at the nearest suitable airport “ is confusing You ?
Granted, this is not from a 737 QRH... but I've seen the following definitions:

The statement “Land immediately at nearest suitable airport” is defined as:
• Land at the nearest airport that offers sufficient landing distance available and if required, emergency services to support the emergency or abnormality.

The statement “Land at nearest suitable airport” is defined as:
• The airplane may continue to the destination airport or the nearest airport where maintenance services are available.
Does the 737 QRH differentiate between the two?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 19:51
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by c_coder View Post
Even though its airside, the Iranians could get their hands on parts, tools, etc.
So what? AFAIK Iranian airlines are operating a number of Airbus A320 and A330, and have operated 727, 737 and 747 in the past. Politics aside, what difference would getting their hands on 737 spares and tools make?
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 19:58
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Originally Posted by climber314 View Post
I don't agree it's that black and white. There's a number of "practical considerations" that could factor into a diversion decision.

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/w...e-the-closest/
Of course, it all depends on the situation and the reason why you need to divert, BUT when the QRH tells you to land at the nearest suitable airport, you need to land at the nearest suitable airport. If you decide otherwise, and in the end something goes wrong, you're gonna have to give some serious explanation to the judge. Sorry but spare parts paperwork will not be seen as a valid reason.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 20:03
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RHSandLovingIt View Post
Granted, this is not from a 737 QRH... but I've seen the following definitions:

Does the 737 QRH differentiate between the two?
No such thing in the 737 QRH.

And the only definition I found about "land at the nearest suitable airport" in my manuals is in my OM-B, and is "land at the nearest airport where a safe landing can be made".
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 20:04
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Joe_K View Post
So what? AFAIK Iranian airlines are operating a number of Airbus A320 and A330, and have operated 727, 737 and 747 in the past. Politics aside, what difference would getting their hands on 737 spares and tools make?
https://gov-relations.com/itar/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations


The 737 Max 8 likely contains many Controlled Items (for the purpose of ITAR) which can not be exported to Iran without approval.

From the wikipedia article:

> theoretical access to the USML items overseas or by foreign persons is sufficient to constitute a breach of ITAR


Reading above, it looks like membership with ICAO may provide specific ways around ITAR to help with this case. But I personally know that there is a lot of technology which you just can't send to Iran.

Edit: the whole point of ITAR is to keep the US and their allies ahead of potential enemies. So the restrict export of the latest hardware and software, It doesn't have to be specifically military, but the hardware and software in a modern radar would certainly be covered.

Last edited by c_coder; 16th Dec 2018 at 20:34. Reason: missinfg link
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