Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta
If they cannot keep their ships in one place because of the strong currents, and they are denied permission to anchor their ships above the crash site because of Pertamina pipelines underwater, and if the divers are using handheld lights, you have to wonder about the state of the seabed there where an airliner crashed through it all.
So what do you conclude from the absence of such reports ?
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't see attaching a lot of significance to that. It seems pretty plausible that in a moment of stress with a lot of things going on that a pilot might not spend a lot of time thinking about whether it is airspeed or groundspeed that ATC has displayed before them.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What are the odds that Jakarta ATC is going to have the equipment to receive and display EHS data? From what I've been able to determine, that is years away in the US, not to suggest that that the US is leader in adopting the technology. Just guessing, I would put Indonesia fairly far down on the list of early adopters.
The aircraft I used to fly had so many interconnects between left hand, right hand and sby instruments we were told even if two are indicating the same it might be those two that are wrong, why are aircraft being designed like this?
everything is now so over complicated it’s almost impossible to have a working knowledge of systems.
simple solution have sby instruments from a c152 without any computer between the sensors and instruments.
this won’t remedy poor flying skills though!
everything is now so over complicated it’s almost impossible to have a working knowledge of systems.
simple solution have sby instruments from a c152 without any computer between the sensors and instruments.
this won’t remedy poor flying skills though!
I find it interesting that the pilot asks for “airspeed” from ATC.
Keep it up.
I find it interesting that the pilot asks for “airspeed” from ATC.
If it has not been said already, you would be lucky to find a square metre of that particular segment of ocean floor that was not already covered in man made objects long before the aircraft added to the burden.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All that is true, but I think the point the poster was making was that the crew requested "airspeed" rather than "groundspeed". As I said earlier, I think that trying to find deeper meaning in this is reading the tea leaves a little too hard.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, *some* ATC facilities have the ability to receive and display airspeed data sent from the airplane. It's not anywhere close to *most* This is implemented in Europe, and maybe a few other places. It is not implemented in the US, at least according to my conversations with US Controllers. I'd be surprised if this was installed in Indonesia. Generally, Air Traffic Control is transitioning to being based on self reported position and altitude but it's just in the beginning stages of that. For the most part Air Traffic control is still based primarily on ground radar information .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
O/T
Like these ? Malaysian at Brisbane, pushing back, taking off and trying to climb with all 3 pitot cover streamers perfectly visible....
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ABKUT
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, it confirms to you ‘What’ on your instruments is correct. Okay, so now you know GS readout is correct.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UTC +8
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Icarus2001 . . .
They may well have plenty of understanding but in today's environment the crew simply follow what the QRH or recall says to do. They have to, there is no choice. When multiple failures occur the crucial aspect is determining the root cause. I have been with crew in the sim that announced a generator failure, the actual failure was an engine failure, inability to sort the wheat from the chaff will kill people. Knowing WHICH QRH item or recall to do first is important,
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: .
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At no stage in a Boeing manual , FCTM or QRH does it imply to ask ATC for a airspeed reading.
It does however , merely advise quailfied crews that ATC radars may be utilised for a ground speed readout.
It does however , merely advise quailfied crews that ATC radars may be utilised for a ground speed readout.
No ground crew mentioned the 3 red flags either; and, for that matter, no other taxying a/c saw or said anything.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, *some* ATC facilities have the ability to receive and display airspeed data sent from the airplane. It's not anywhere close to *most* This is implemented in Europe, and maybe a few other places. It is not implemented in the US, at least according to my conversations with US Controllers. I'd be surprised if this was installed in Indonesia. Generally, Air Traffic Control is transitioning to being based on self reported position and altitude but it's just in the beginning stages of that. For the most part Air Traffic control is still based primarily on ground radar information .
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's certainly possible that those FDR parameters whcih are derived from pitot/static measurement might be suspect. However, the FDR records at least 88 parameters, whcih include geographic position and acceleration in all 3 axes, whcih are completely independent of any pitot/static errors whcih might have been occurring. If you have independent position and acceleration data, it becomes a pretty simple task to determine if the recorded altitude and airspeed information is in error.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting, Not long ago I had been trying to find out if and when it would be appearing in US ARTCCs, the informal answer I got from various controllers was "we don't have it, no idea when we will" I hadn't heard that "Ain't gonna happen" was the FAA's official position.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: .
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The safety record of Lion Air is but one piece of the puzzle. Regardless of their history, they can still be involved in an accident that is not the fault of the crew. If you are biased at the start of an investigation you are likely to miss vital clues. On a purely statistical side note, many well known carriers have a higher fatality record than Lion Air.
Significant investigative effort should also be placed on examining the procedures, training, and corporate culture at the accident airline.
Significant investigative effort should also be placed on examining the procedures, training, and corporate culture at the accident airline.