Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta
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When I first read the above article, it was mentioned that it was recovered 8 metres below the seafloor. Huh? I thought something was lost in translation. How could it have ever been found under the sea bed. I just read the Associated Press account, and indeed, it was recovered under 8 metres of sea bed mud.
Congratulations indeed to the Navy divers, working in these conditions!
Congratulations indeed to the Navy divers, working in these conditions!
one bit of good news in a very sad story
Congrats to the divers for what seems to be a fairly complex recovery. Details would be indeed most interesting.
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there is no reason why transcripts should be put into the public in a "timely manner".
It is not unusual to publish the raw transscript pretty quickly, often minus the famous last words which do no longer contribute to understanding the accident.
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A KNKT source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters the team will have seven days using the ship KRI Spica to find the CVR..."
The National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) collaborates with the Navy's Hydrographic and Oceanographic Center (Pushidrosal) to return to search for cockpit voice recorders Lion Air JT-610 PK-LQP (CVR) which crashed in Tanjung Karawang waters some time ago.
Pushidrosal deployed KRI Spica-934 which departed from the Jakarta International Container Terminal (JICT) Pier 2, Tanjung Priok Port, Tuesday (1/8).
The National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) collaborates with the Navy's Hydrographic and Oceanographic Center (Pushidrosal) to return to search for cockpit voice recorders Lion Air JT-610 PK-LQP (CVR) which crashed in Tanjung Karawang waters some time ago.
Pushidrosal deployed KRI Spica-934 which departed from the Jakarta International Container Terminal (JICT) Pier 2, Tanjung Priok Port, Tuesday (1/8).
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Apologies if this has already been posted above ; I found nothing through a quick search.
Here is the report on a Falcon 7X serious incident in May 2011.
https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...0525.en_01.pdf
I think that the serious incident of HB-JFN shares several commonalities with the Lion Air accident:
1. In both cases, an uncommanded movement of the THS has led to a catastrophic situation.
2. In both cases, the uncommanded movement has been caused by the failure of a single element in an automation system controlling the THS.
3. In both cases, the automation system was a new design or a redesign.
The report does a good job of showing that the combination of 14 CFR 25.671 and 14 CFR 25.1309 implies that an automation system that has the potential of commanding a THS runaway should be designed as fail-safe, which implies immunity to single element failure, or should provide appropriate warning to alert the crew of the unsafe operating situation. The warnings must be designed to minimize crew errors which could create additional hazards.
That was not adhered to by the Falcon 7X at the time of the serious incident and, obviously, also by the B737 Max at present time.
The report does also a good job of showing that the non-compliance to certification specifications was partially caused by a botched risk analysis process and that the risk analysis failure has systemic causes.
I wouldn't be surprised if similar risk analysis failures would be found at Boeing in the context of the Lion Air accident investigation.
Another thing I noticed in the HB-JFN incident report is that one of the first reactions of Dassault had been to add a button in the cockpit that disables the auto-trim system and enables the electric trim push buttons available to the pilots.
Luc
Here is the report on a Falcon 7X serious incident in May 2011.
https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...0525.en_01.pdf
I think that the serious incident of HB-JFN shares several commonalities with the Lion Air accident:
1. In both cases, an uncommanded movement of the THS has led to a catastrophic situation.
2. In both cases, the uncommanded movement has been caused by the failure of a single element in an automation system controlling the THS.
3. In both cases, the automation system was a new design or a redesign.
The report does a good job of showing that the combination of 14 CFR 25.671 and 14 CFR 25.1309 implies that an automation system that has the potential of commanding a THS runaway should be designed as fail-safe, which implies immunity to single element failure, or should provide appropriate warning to alert the crew of the unsafe operating situation. The warnings must be designed to minimize crew errors which could create additional hazards.
That was not adhered to by the Falcon 7X at the time of the serious incident and, obviously, also by the B737 Max at present time.
The report does also a good job of showing that the non-compliance to certification specifications was partially caused by a botched risk analysis process and that the risk analysis failure has systemic causes.
I wouldn't be surprised if similar risk analysis failures would be found at Boeing in the context of the Lion Air accident investigation.
Another thing I noticed in the HB-JFN incident report is that one of the first reactions of Dassault had been to add a button in the cockpit that disables the auto-trim system and enables the electric trim push buttons available to the pilots.
Luc
Last edited by Luc Lion; 15th Jan 2019 at 11:47.
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Lion Air JT610 PK-LQP CVR has been successfully downloaded
Avherald is reporting that the Indonesian NTSC (KNKT) has successfully downloaded the CVR with over 2 hours of audio in good condition. It is currently being transcribed. Hopefully it will soon be made public or be leaked out on social or mainstream media.
(Note to mods: I can't post on the previous thread of this accident because it is locked.)
(Note to mods: I can't post on the previous thread of this accident because it is locked.)
SkyGod
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Avherald is reporting that the Indonesian NTSC (KNKT) has successfully downloaded the CVR with over 2 hours of audio in good condition. It is currently being transcribed. Hopefully it will soon be made public or be leaked out on social or mainstream media.
(Note to mods: I can't post on the previous thread of this accident because it is locked.)
(Note to mods: I can't post on the previous thread of this accident because it is locked.)
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Lion Air CVR Not Until Final Report
Sounds like sense for once - it'll save 70000 posts on here
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Originally Posted by Reuters
The recording needs to be filtered first due to background sounds hindering the transcription, said Soerjanto Tjahjono, the chief of the transportation safety committee (KNKT).It might take one or two weeks because it was noisy inside (the cockpit), he told Reuters.
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What exactly do you take issue with in the article? It seems to be a good factual summary for a general public audience of the part of the investigation focusing on MCAS. It does not assign blame or make final conclusions about the accident.
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If it was the New York Post, I might agree without further question. But why do you say this?
I seldom agree with the Times on politics, but when they want to do some serious reporting they're generally amongst the best. Is there anything here that hasn't already been mentioned and/or supported in the main LionAir crash thread? If so, can you enlighten us?
(OK, I see Mr. Murdock has similar concerns but managed to slip in ahead of me.)
I seldom agree with the Times on politics, but when they want to do some serious reporting they're generally amongst the best. Is there anything here that hasn't already been mentioned and/or supported in the main LionAir crash thread? If so, can you enlighten us?
(OK, I see Mr. Murdock has similar concerns but managed to slip in ahead of me.)
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Are you talking about GOL? Goa is a Portuguese enclave in India, but I'm not familiar with them as a Brazilian operator.
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Lion Air Flight 610 - Final Report published
The original thread is closed.
Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta
The KNKT have released their final report into the accident.
http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_a...l%20Report.pdf
Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta
The KNKT have released their final report into the accident.
http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_a...l%20Report.pdf