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Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta

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Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta

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Old 4th Jan 2019, 15:00
  #2081 (permalink)  
 
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Those that want the CVR need to pay for the search

The Governments involved should define the need (Airworthiness)

Curiosity is not always afforable
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 16:14
  #2082 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Zeffy View Post
In what world does an airline call off the search for critical data relating to one of its own accidents?

Doesn't this development also call into question the integrity and diligence of the Indonesian MOT?
In Indonesia - the Govt doesn't have much money and so they can only pay so much - right now they're probably prioritizing the Krakatoa tsunami victims who are at least alive - in Indonesia there's always another disaster about to happen that requires funds...................
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 01:50
  #2083 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
In Indonesia - the Govt doesn't have much money and so they can only pay so much - right now they're probably prioritizing the Krakatoa tsunami victims who are at least alive - in Indonesia there's always another disaster about to happen that requires funds...................
Point well taken. Boeing is a VERY important business in the United States. The U.S. government should pony up to continue the search for the CVR, Surely, the executive branch has a "flush fund" for such events (government shutdown notwithstanding), I suspect the chair of the NTSB is quite unhappy, for he is honest and an absolute expert.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 13:15
  #2084 (permalink)  
 
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Search for the CVR resumed.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-in...-idUKKCN1P2066

NTSC Continues Lion Air JT-610 CVR Search
http://mediaindonesia.com/read/detail/209161-knkt-lanjutkan-pencarian-cvr-lion-air-jt-610
(Google Chrome Translation)
"A KNKT source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters the team will have seven days using the ship KRI Spica to find the CVR..."

The National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) collaborates with the Navy's Hydrographic and Oceanographic Center (Pushidrosal) to return to search for cockpit voice recorders Lion Air JT-610 PK-LQP (CVR) which crashed in Tanjung Karawang waters some time ago.

Pushidrosal deployed KRI Spica-934 which departed from the Jakarta International Container Terminal (JICT) Pier 2, Tanjung Priok Port, Tuesday (1/8).

The departure of the Hydro-Oceanographic survey vessel under the guidance of the Pushidrosal was released by the Head of Regional Police Laksda TNI Harjo Susmoro and the Chair of the NTSC Soerjanto Tjahjono and the main officials of the two institutions.

Kapushidrosal in his written statement, said, the departure of KRI Spica-934 which has underwater equipment with advanced technology is to continue to look for the existence of CVR which until now has not been found with a complete tool such as Multibeam Echosounder (MBES), Sub Bottom Profiling (SBP) , Magnetometer, Side Scan Sonar, ADCP, and HIPAP equipment that can detect signals from the black box of Lion JT-610.

"In addition to the equipment, KRI Spica-934 also brought 55 crew members, 9 NTSC personnel, 18 Navy divers, and 6 Scientists," he said.

Meanwhile, the Chair of the NTSC Soerjanto Tjahjono said that the NTSC requested Pushidrosal's assistance with the latest equipment to look for the CVR's existence.

With all the power available, KRI Spica, which is commanded by Marine Lt. Col. (P) Hengky Iriawan, has time to look for the CVR Lion Air flight number JT-610 for 15 days, given the signal that CVR emits for 90 days.

At present the remaining remaining time is around 15 days left, since the Lion Air plane crashed in Karawang waters on October 29, 2018.

"We will focus on searching 5 x 5 meters wide, around the point where CVR is estimated. With all our efforts and prayers, we hope that the CVR can be found following the discovery of a flight data recorder (FDR) some time ago to complete the investigation into the cause. "The fall of Lion Air is certain," said Kapushidrosal. (OL-1)

Last edited by FlyXLsa; 8th Jan 2019 at 16:30. Reason: Added new article
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 04:21
  #2085 (permalink)  
 
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Lion Air JT610 Cockpit Voice Recorder Recovered

Reports in Indonesian media that the CVR has been found.



https://kumparan.com/@kumparannews/t...36351341563155
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 04:50
  #2086 (permalink)  
 
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An update in English:

Lion Air JT-610’s missing cockpit voice recorder found in waters near crash site

By Coconuts Jakarta Jan. 14, 2019

Indonesian authorities this morning found the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), a crucial missing piece in the investigation of Lion Air flight JT-610, which crashed into the Java Sea in October.

The CVR was found in waters off the coast of Karawang, West Java, near the plane’s crash site.

“The CVR of Lion Air JT-610 was found at 09:10 Jakarta time [0210Z - Airbubba], 8 meters below the seafloor, or 30 meters deep,” said Indonesian Navy Spokesman Colonel Liutenant Agung Nugroho this morning,
as quoted by Detik. The CVR is now being transported by boat to an Indonesian Navy base in Pondok Dayung, North Jakarta.

Previously, search parties recovered the plane’s flight data recorder (FDR), which makes up one half of the “black box” — the other being the CVR — both of which may prove crucial in determining the cause of the crash.

The preliminary crash report from Indonesia’s transport safety agency suggested that pilots struggled to control the plane’s anti-stalling system immediately before the crash.
Investigators also found that the Lion Air jet should have been grounded over a recurrent technical problem before its final journey, but have not settled on an official cause for the accident.

A lawsuit filed in Chicago blames Boeing for the deadly crash,
claiming the manufacturer’s airplane was “unreasonably dangerous.”

The Boeing 737 Max jet — one of the world’s newest and most advanced commercial planes — plunged into the Java Sea on October 29 shortly after taking off from capital Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang city, killing all 189 on board. A final crash report is likely to be filed this year.

With additional reporting by AFP
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 05:16
  #2087 (permalink)  
 
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Time and an timely manner

I am hoping the long salt water immersion didn't ruin the recording(s) and we get to see the transcripts in a timely manner.
Certainly think this will put the spotlight on the failing(s) in this devastating and sad accident.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 05:33
  #2088 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Back door View Post
I am hoping the long salt water immersion didn't ruin the recording(s) and we get to see the transcripts in a timely manner.
Certainly think this will put the spotlight on the failing(s) in this devastating and sad accident.
I'm pretty confident that the recorder will be just fine. If there is a silver lining to an accident with a brand new aircraft, it's that it has brand new recorders - and the new solid state recorders are vastly better than the older models.
A month or two in ~150 ft. deep salt water is a cake walk compared to what the latest generation of recorders are designed for.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 05:55
  #2089 (permalink)  
 
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The CVR of Lion Air JT-610 was found at 09:10 Jakarta time [0210Z - Airbubba], 8 meters below the seafloor, or 30 meters deep,” said Indonesian Navy Spokesman Colonel Liutenant Agung Nugroho
Assuming the CVR was in the tail, locating it 8 metres below the seabed reinforces the vertical speed of impact.
Also assuming no beacon signal for weeks, it is pretty impressive that they found it.
I am interested to know how they went about the search.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 05:56
  #2090 (permalink)  
 
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When I first read the above article, it was mentioned that it was recovered 8 metres below the seafloor. Huh? I thought something was lost in translation. How could it have ever been found under the sea bed. I just read the Associated Press account, and indeed, it was recovered under 8 metres of sea bed mud.
Congratulations indeed to the Navy divers, working in these conditions!
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 07:40
  #2091 (permalink)  
 
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one bit of good news in a very sad story
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 08:03
  #2092 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Back door View Post
I am hoping the long salt water immersion didn't ruin the recording(s) and we get to see the transcripts in a timely manner.
Certainly think this will put the spotlight on the failing(s) in this devastating and sad accident.
Although we know that the Indonesian inquiry is pretty "leaky" there is no reason why transcripts should be put into the public in a "timely manner".
Congrats to the divers for what seems to be a fairly complex recovery. Details would be indeed most interesting.
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 07:52
  #2093 (permalink)  
 
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there is no reason why transcripts should be put into the public in a "timely manner".
ICAO Annex 13 might be a good reason... The next intermediate report should at least contain the main aspects of the CVR recordings, if not a transcript of the most important conversation.
It is not unusual to publish the raw transscript pretty quickly, often minus the famous last words which do no longer contribute to understanding the accident.
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 10:40
  #2094 (permalink)  
 
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A KNKT source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters the team will have seven days using the ship KRI Spica to find the CVR..."

The National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) collaborates with the Navy's Hydrographic and Oceanographic Center (Pushidrosal) to return to search for cockpit voice recorders Lion Air JT-610 PK-LQP (CVR) which crashed in Tanjung Karawang waters some time ago.

Pushidrosal deployed KRI Spica-934 which departed from the Jakarta International Container Terminal (JICT) Pier 2, Tanjung Priok Port, Tuesday (1/8).
Wow, that’s amazing. They’ve been searching for nearly 3 months and this mob found it in a week! Well done!
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 11:24
  #2095 (permalink)  
 
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Apologies if this has already been posted above ; I found nothing through a quick search.
Here is the report on a Falcon 7X serious incident in May 2011.
https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...0525.en_01.pdf

I think that the serious incident of HB-JFN shares several commonalities with the Lion Air accident:
1. In both cases, an uncommanded movement of the THS has led to a catastrophic situation.
2. In both cases, the uncommanded movement has been caused by the failure of a single element in an automation system controlling the THS.
3. In both cases, the automation system was a new design or a redesign.

The report does a good job of showing that the combination of 14 CFR 25.671 and 14 CFR 25.1309 implies that an automation system that has the potential of commanding a THS runaway should be designed as fail-safe, which implies immunity to single element failure, or should provide appropriate warning to alert the crew of the unsafe operating situation. The warnings must be designed to minimize crew errors which could create additional hazards.
That was not adhered to by the Falcon 7X at the time of the serious incident and, obviously, also by the B737 Max at present time.

The report does also a good job of showing that the non-compliance to certification specifications was partially caused by a botched risk analysis process and that the risk analysis failure has systemic causes.
I wouldn't be surprised if similar risk analysis failures would be found at Boeing in the context of the Lion Air accident investigation.

Another thing I noticed in the HB-JFN incident report is that one of the first reactions of Dassault had been to add a button in the cockpit that disables the auto-trim system and enables the electric trim push buttons available to the pilots.

Luc

Last edited by Luc Lion; 15th Jan 2019 at 12:47.
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