KLM AMS-MSP 4 go-arounds

[av8sean]

Sounds like a busy day. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...735Z/EHAM/KMSP

[DaveReidUK]

Not wishing to be picky, but it landed from the 4th approach, so 3 go-arounds.

[wiedehopf]

To at least make give some background to this non-event:

First go-around was runway 12R 16:38 UTC and landed 17:27 UTC.
Subsequent approaches to 30L.

First go-around due to the wind shifting to the tail the rest probably due to gusts and heavy rain.

Other flights diverted as is quite usual when there is heavy rain and strong gusts.
KLM had enough gas to stick around and give their passengers a wonderful ride.

Relevant METAR
201807011631 SPECI KMSP 011631Z 16008KT 2 1/2SM R30L/5000VP6000FT RA BR
OVC007 21/21 A2966 RMK AO2 CIG 004V013
P0007 T02110211=
201807011649 SPECI KMSP 011649Z 32026G37KT 3/4SM R30L/3000VP6000FT +RA
BR BKN007 BKN010 OVC018 18/18 A2967
RMK AO2 PK WND 28037/1644 P0015=
201807011653 METAR KMSP 011653Z 33021G37KT 1SM R30L/3000VP6000FT +RA BR
BKN007 BKN010 OVC029 18/17 A2967
RMK AO2 PK WND 28037/1644 SLP044
P0022 T01780172=
201807011700 SPECI KMSP 011700Z 32021G35KT 2SM R30L/4000VP6000FT +RA BR
SCT007 BKN010 OVC029 18/17 A2969
RMK AO2 PK WND 32035/1655 WSHFT 1642
PRESRR P0004 T01780172=
201807011716 SPECI KMSP 011716Z 33024G43KT 1 1/2SM R30L/3000VP6000FT +RA
BR BKN009 BKN023 OVC041 17/17 A2970
RMK AO2 PK WND 31043/1709 WSHFT 1642
P0015 T01720167=
201807011728 SPECI KMSP 011728Z 32025G36KT 4SM R30L/5500VP6000FT -RA BR
SCT009 BKN014 OVC023 17/17 A2970
RMK AO2 PK WND 31043/1709 WSHFT 1642
P0018 T01720167=

[The Ancient Geek]

Well done KLM.
Diversions are best avoided if possible, having a few hundred pax and their luggage a few hundred miles from their expected destination waiting around for buses to complete the journey by road is not a happy scene.
Many moons ago I was expecting to land at LHR after a long flight from JNB when the Nigel announced that LHR and LGW were both fogged in and he was diverting to London Prestwick (yes,thats what he called it). Hang around for 2 hours while they rounded up enough buses for a 743 load of people then 7 hours by road.
Some rather unpleasant scenes from the disgruntled masses and definitely not good PR for BA.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek

Many moons ago I was expecting to land at LHR after a long flight from JNB when the Nigel announced that LHR and LGW were both fogged in and he was diverting to London Prestwick (yes,thats what he called it). Hang around for 2 hours while they rounded up enough buses for a 743 load of people then 7 hours by road.
Some rather unpleasant scenes from the disgruntled masses and definitely not good PR for BA.

I expect that in those days, BA still had some staff who could remember the outcome of an attempt to land at LHR below limits.

[eckhard]

The unmistakeable cockpit fenestration of a Guard’s Van. I believe a combination of low vis, tiredness, poor attitude IF and lag in the VSI produced this sad result. Was it off the third approach?

[ehwatezedoing]

ah, MSP/KMSP as.... Minneapolis.
It sure sounds cool (or trying to look pro!?) Mentioning an airport just with its code.

/Sarcastic mode

[Hotel Tango]

OFF TOPIC:

ah, MSP/KMSP as.... Minneapolis.
It sure sounds cool (or trying to look pro!?) Mentioning an airport just with its code.

This is an aviation forum. Therefore, in my opinion, the use of official IATA/ICAO designators should be the norm. If one does not know the designator given, it only requires a few seconds on a well known search engine.

[cappt]

Originally Posted by ehwatezedoing

ah, MSP/KMSP as.... Minneapolis.
It sure sounds cool (or trying to look pro!?) Mentioning an airport just with its code.

/Sarcastic mode

Most anyone in the biz or at least with an interest would do the same, no? Not being pre-cleared through customs adds another level of diverting complexity to consider so if you have fuel you might as well stick around as long as you can. MSP has had some of the worst WX I can remember this spring/early summer. Add in 100% humidity with high temps and it has turned it into a sweltering jungle, bugs included. It's just incredible how the seasons change there. A few hundred miles north the Hudson bay is still partially covered with ice.

[MaximumPete]

Eckhard, Yes it was in October 1965 and on the go-around the Captain raised the flaps to 5 degrees or up and the co-pilot flying the monitored approach in accordance with standard operating procedures over-relied on the pressure instruments. The lag in the ASI and VSI caught him out. We used to fly monitored approaches on the V701 and it didn't even have a VSI on the F/Os side. It's a bit out of the ice age.




Viscount 701 F/Os flight instruments

[cojones]

Also disorientation in the G/As The semicircular canals, during acceleration, gave a signal to the brain of a pitch up and the control column was instinctively moved forward to counteract the illusion. This is what I heard from the AAIB.
My Dad missed the flight from EDI and gave BEA ground staff such a bollocking. He could see the Vanguard at the gate and they told him he was too late to board. He felt rather sheepish.....and grateful..... the following morning.

[cojones]

Eeeeeeee, lad, you woz looky....looks like you had an RMI. I only 'ad an RBI !!

[The Ancient Geek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek Many moons ago I was expecting to land at LHR after a long flight from JNB when the Nigel announced that LHR and LGW were both fogged in and he was diverting to London Prestwick (yes,thats what he called it). Hang around for 2 hours while they rounded up enough buses for a 743 load of people then 7 hours by road.
Some rather unpleasant scenes from the disgruntled masses and definitely not good PR for BA.

I expect that in those days, BA still had some staff who could remember the outcome of an attempt to land at LHR below limits.

For the sake of clarity I was not suggesting that limits should have been busted, indeed I have always been a stickler for limits.
My point is that KLM should be congratulated on carrying enough fuel to avoid a diversion.
Regarding the historic Prestwick diversion it would probably have been a better idea to consider Cardiff or Birmingham, both within 2 hours of LHR by road or maybe Manchester at 3 hours. For some obscure reason BA have/had a propensity to dive for Prestwick as their preferred diversion at the cost of massive passenger inconvenience and in this case a total JNB-LHR journey time of just under 26 hours. Interestingly on that day SAA opted for Manchester, called ahead and had a fleet of buses waiting.

[pattern_is_full]

Originally Posted by ehwatezedoing

ah, MSP/KMSP as.... Minneapolis.
It sure sounds cool (or trying to look pro!?) Mentioning an airport just with its code.

/Sarcastic mode

And it IS one of the easier codes to figure out - Minneapolis/St. Paul (the Twin Cities, remember?) - better than, say, MCO/KMCO (Orlando International, formerly McCOy Air Force Base)

[P40Warhawk]

Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek

Well done KLM.
Diversions are best avoided if possible, having a few hundred pax and their luggage a few hundred miles from their expected destination waiting around for buses to complete the journey by road is not a happy scene.
Many moons ago I was expecting to land at LHR after a long flight from JNB when the Nigel announced that LHR and LGW were both fogged in and he was diverting to London Prestwick (yes,thats what he called it). Hang around for 2 hours while they rounded up enough buses for a 743 load of people then 7 hours by road.
Some rather unpleasant scenes from the disgruntled masses and definitely not good PR for BA.

What is worse? Bad PR because of diversion or due to a crash killing or injuring people? Good job to KLM Pilots.

[The Ancient Geek]

What is worse? Bad PR because of diversion or due to a crash killing or injuring people? Good job to KLM Pilots.

Please read what I wrote up there in #13.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek

For some obscure reason BA have/had a propensity to dive for Prestwick

When London is socked in, Manchester may or may not be, but Prestwick almost certainly isn't. It's not known as "the fog-free airport" for nothing.

[no nonsense]

Most airlines have a limited amount of go-around`s...as per procedure...
Spending fuel at destination is nice if you have enough but arriving at the alternate with something to spare is also nice
KLM`s fuel policy is on the numbers by the way

[ehwatezedoing]

Originally Posted by pattern_is_full

And it IS one of the easier codes to figure out - Minneapolis/St. Paul (the Twin Cities, remember?) - better than, say, MCO/KMCO (Orlando International, formerly McCOy Air Force Base)

Says the guy in Denver

You will notice that I put two and two together wih AMS and KLM.
KLM is going into various countries in the world from Amsterdam and initial poster dropped the K on KMSP.

I’m aware about “say no to Kilo” But on an International aviation forum, not everything is necessary centered into US of A.



Kind off a stretch doing 3 missed approaches though.....

[B2N2]

You get paid to make a decision not to keep trying till it works.