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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

Old 19th Dec 2018, 11:29
  #581 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe a small reprieve coming for 9 months in the event of a No Deal. Just need the defination of “Certain Aviation Safety Licenses”

Transport

The Commission has today adopted two measures that will avoid full interruption of air traffic between the EU and the UK in the event of no deal. These measures will only ensure basic connectivity and in no means replicate the significant advantages of membership of the Single European Sky. This is subject to the UK conferring equivalent rights to EU air carriers, as well as the UK ensuring conditions of fair competition.
  • A proposal for a Regulation to ensure temporarily (for 12 months) the provision of certain air services between the UK and the EU.
  • A proposal for a Regulation to extend temporarily (for 9 months) the validity of certain aviation safety licences.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 11:47
  #582 (permalink)  
 
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The detail seems to be in these documents which I cannot find:

v Commission proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on common rules ensuring basic air connectivity with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union (COM(2018) 893 final).
vi Commission proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on certain aspects of aviation safety with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union (COM(2018) 894 final).
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 11:49
  #583 (permalink)  
 
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European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Brexit: European Commission implements ?no-deal? Contingency Action Plan in specific sectors

assuming “flight crew licences” can be somehow tagged along, looks like a 9-month grace period which I queried somewhere on this thread awhile ago.

Hopefully, now that some legal framework exist, EASA will give further guidance.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:47
  #584 (permalink)  
 
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Aviation – safety 12.
What does the Commission's proposal on aviation safety concretely include?

In case of no deal, the Commission’s proposal for a Regulation:

*extends for a limited period of time – 9 months – the validity of certain certificates (in particular type certificates) that can only be issued by the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) on the basis of certificates issued by the UK once it is a third country.
*ensures that parts and appliances, for which a certificate of conformity was issued by a UK company before the withdrawal date, can still be used in and on aircraft although the company that issued the certificate is no longer entitled to issue new certificates.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:56
  #585 (permalink)  
 
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While seemingly some respite is being provided on licences, there are some other restrictions:

...the total seasonal capacity to be provided by UK air carriers for routes between the United Kingdom and each Member State shall not exceed the total number of frequencies operated by those carriers on those routes during respectively the IATA winter and summer seasons of the year of 2018.
Seemingly no frequency growth allowed next year - not that its likely to be needed? This would also seem to prohibit the opening of new routes.

The Member States shall neither negotiate nor enter into any bilateral agreements or arrangements with the United Kingdom on matters falling within the scope of this Regulation. They shall not otherwise grant UK air carriers, in connection with air transport, any rights other than those granted by this Regulation.
And no back-door one-to-one deals.

UK air carriers shall submit the operational plans, programmes and schedules for air services to the competent authorities of each Member State concerned, for their approval. Any such submission shall be made at least 30 days prior to the start of the operations.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 19:19
  #586 (permalink)  
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A question, as a no deal Brexit is been discussed more seriously. What will Ryanair do on 29th March 2019 at 23:00?

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Old 19th Dec 2018, 19:42
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...will cancel most of UK flights departing after 2pm and commence the AC translocation to Ireland and Continental Europe?
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 19:49
  #588 (permalink)  
 
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No, because the provisions of COM(2018)893 will allow the continuation of flights between the UK and EU at existing frequencies. That's assuming the UK insists on the same terms.

So no increase in frequency between UK and any of the EU27 States by any carrier, based on S18 and W18 capacity. That's how I read it
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 21:11
  #589 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sewushr View Post
No, because the provisions of COM(2018)893 will allow the continuation of flights between the UK and EU at existing frequencies. That's assuming the UK insists on the same terms.

So no increase in frequency between UK and any of the EU27 States by any carrier, based on S18 and W18 capacity. That's how I read it
Indeed... quote: "...the capacity which United Kingdom air carriers will be allowed to offer is frozen at pre-Brexit levels expressed in number of flights ("frequencies")." I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market.

More worryingly: "UK air carriers may... perform scheduled and non-scheduled international air transport services for passengers, combination of passengers and cargo and all-cargo services between any pair of points of which one is situated in the territory of the United Kingdom and the other one is situated in the territory of the Union"

No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 22:18
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Brexit

Dont forget that individual countries, finding their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted, may not agree with the EU dictats. Highly likely to ignore and just maintain existing protocols while disputing.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 08:52
  #591 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EastMids View Post
I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market.
100% correct, but UK people voted for this or even worse outcome (eg no deal at all thus grounding flights or nil reciprocation)
Originally Posted by EastMids View Post
No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK.
Ryanair has launched UK subsidiary for the event so domestic routes can remain to be facilitated. Depending agreement other aircraft may join its UK register to enable UK-EU flights departing from UK afterwards. Worse case and no deal emerges, then aircraft can be relocated to EU markets.
BMI sadly under NO circumstance will be able to offer intra European routes, this comes with EU membership and thus is not allowed under any foreseen agreement when Brexit is triggered.
Stobart Air will have issues with intra UK routes, unless it acts as Ryanair has done, using a UK AOC, or continue operating by routing aircraft through an out of UK location (IE?)
West Atlantic as per BMI, unless aircraft are flying to/from UK on each flight... SE-reg aircraft no intra UK flights...

Sad state of affairs, especially to think people wanted this to happen...
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:06
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Originally Posted by rightstuffer View Post
Dont forget that individual countries, finding their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted, may not agree with the EU dictats. Highly likely to ignore and just maintain existing protocols while disputing.
In the context of what was announced yesterday which airlines in the EU27 do you think will find their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:11
  #593 (permalink)  
 
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Why are you so certain the UK will reciprocate? We could simply maintain the status quo, especially if it doesnt effect UK businesses. We do not have to increase any paperwork or checks at borders, we do not have to change any rules nor stop any current practices unless WE wish to. Now I accept that is the logical way forward, and politicians seem to lack logic at present but.....
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:11
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Originally Posted by Skyjob View Post
100% correct, but UK people voted for this . . .


Sad state of affairs, especially to think people wanted this to happen...
As they say, be careful what you wish for!
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:08
  #595 (permalink)  
 
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All of this is extremely academic, I STRONGLY doubt the MPs will let a no deal happen. Just a bunch of free news for a while, nothing to see here
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:25
  #596 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BONES_ View Post
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Brexit: European Commission implements ?no-deal? Contingency Action Plan in specific sectors

assuming “flight crew licences” can be somehow tagged along, looks like a 9-month grace period which I queried somewhere on this thread awhile ago.

Hopefully, now that some legal framework exist, EASA will give further guidance.
Unfortunately it seems that "certain aviation licenses" does not cover any personnel licenses, but rather it covers design certificates and approvals held in the UK which need to be maintained temporarily to safeguard the EU aviation system.

I guess this contingency regulation doesn't include individual licenses because the EC assumes that individuals should have 'prepared for all possible scenarios, assessed relevant risks and planned their response to mitigate them' by swapping their license to EU country.

Here are the certificates and approvals that will continue to be recognized for 9 months
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info...ects-annex.pdf
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:47
  #597 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s View Post
All of this is extremely academic, I STRONGLY doubt the MPs will let a no deal happen. Just a bunch of free news for a while, nothing to see here
You misunderstand the (Cough) 'decision making process' (Cough) of bureaucrats, politicians and weak management. The can is continually kicked down the road and ad hoc decisions are made by businesses and staff at working level on what should happen, the deadline passes with ad hoc solutions in place and the 'decision makers' say look there is already a working solution it will be disruptive to back out of that we will reluctantly support it. This is the art of blame avoidance - the politicians didn't make the decision on what to do - the ad hoc solution was developed by people who had to come up with a quick fix solution. So nobody can blame the politicians for what is happening. As the deadline approaches the politicians are less and less likely to make any meaningful decisions. Indeed, with the deadline a mere 12 weeks away it is really too late to make any decisions that require any constructive thought.

Remember these people are politicians because they can't make it in private business.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:55
  #598 (permalink)  
 
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Does all this correspondence mean that an EASA licence becomes invalid on 31 March? How so? And what of aircraft certified by EASA?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:00
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Originally Posted by EastMids View Post


Indeed... quote: "...the capacity which United Kingdom air carriers will be allowed to offer is frozen at pre-Brexit levels expressed in number of flights ("frequencies")." I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market.

More worryingly: "UK air carriers may... perform scheduled and non-scheduled international air transport services for passengers, combination of passengers and cargo and all-cargo services between any pair of points of which one is situated in the territory of the United Kingdom and the other one is situated in the territory of the Union"

No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK.
Happy to corrected, but if that's the case then how about all O'Leary's EI Reg aircraft based in the UK - do they have to become G Reg to fly to / from UK into the EU ?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:19
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Quote.

Ryanair has launched UK subsidiary for the event so domestic routes can remain to be facilitated. Depending agreement other aircraft may join its UK register to enable UK-EU flights departing from UK afterwards. Worse case and no deal emerges, then aircraft can be relocated to EU markets.
BMI sadly under NO circumstance will be able to offer intra European routes, this comes with EU membership and thus is not allowed under any foreseen agreement when Brexit is triggered.
Please can you explain how Ryanair can retain its fifth freedom rights, yet British airlines will lose theirs just because the EU says so. Don't air routes around the world come under the Chicago Convention, which the EU is not even a member?

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