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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

Old 23rd Nov 2018, 15:47
  #521 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hinckley
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Originally Posted by robin View Post
That is appalling. For over 2 years I've had letters from the CAA and MPs saying completely the opposite - that we would aim to stay within EASA.

At such a late stage to rat on that position is criminal negligence
You are right, industry has been consistently assured that in one form or other we will remain a member of EASA by the CAA hierarchy, government departments and representatives - as of yesterday that was clearly and concisely exposed as an outright lie. We now categorically leave EASA at end of a transition period, or we crash out this March. Total and utter betrayal.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 16:09
  #522 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
If anyone thinks that this will happen you are crazy. Too many vested interests and money at stake.
That’s an awful lot of faith, straw clutching and praying considering what an absolute mess this entire negotiation process has been. If you crash out at the end of March, none of your licenced personnel are certified to operate, no G registered aircraft is certified as airworthy.

Now there’s likely to be some kind of workaround there (we hope). Where there’s no workaround is the UK has virtually no bilaterals with other countries anymore for air travel, they’ve all been replaced by EU ones. Case and point EU-US openskies replacing Bermuda. These things take quite a while to negotiate. If there’s a hard Brexit in March, UK airlines can’t carry fare paying passengers to the US, EU and most other countries (and vice versa).

Now that hurts every airline, but most especially the UK airlines, putting them in the position of weakness at the outset of negotiations. Have fun with the Trump and Jinping administrations in that case.

Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 23rd Nov 2018 at 16:50.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 11:08
  #523 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
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For those having to transfer their licence to another EASA country, the UK CAA strongly recommends to start the process by the end of the year - considering Christmas closure and very high volume of transactions, i dare to say 3 months might be tight.


To enable the CAA time to complete its part in the licence transfer process, the CAA advises that application forms from the NAA need to be submitted to the CAA by January 1 2019. We will endeavour to transfer any application received after this date, but the process may not be completed by 29 March 2019.

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Old 27th Nov 2018, 18:49
  #524 (permalink)  
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Which is the easiest EASA country to transfer to. Does Ireland still accept transfers. Thanks Jim
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 19:37
  #525 (permalink)  
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I am sure my UK employer had a fast track in the processing of the paperwork from both sides, but from UK to Austria it took me less than a month.
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 06:50
  #526 (permalink)  
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With your new EASA license will that allow you to work.
I doubt it,i think everyone will need work permits as well.
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 07:21
  #527 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I am staggered that this isn't front page news today - either with May's Deal or No Deal, we are leaving EASA. This is monumentally idiotic. We will 'seek' and 'explore' close alignment but we will not be part of EASA. Why isn't the aerospace and aviation industry screaming the house down this morning? The CAA's ability (or not) to ramp up swiftly to take on the full burden of effectively replacing EASA has been highlighted over the couple of years. Why the silence? Airbus? BAe? What the hell is going on?
I have pondered the deafening silence from the aviation industry in all matters brexit for a while (and researched it a little) and have concluded that too much "fear and panic" would hit the forward booking hard come January, when the mainstream UK public traditionally start booking up their hols/flights for Easter onwards. This in turn would be the nail in the coffin for some airlines/holiday firms, which, let's be honest, are never that far from going belly up. Case in point, Thomas Cook, profit warning this week - didn't see any mention of a "brexit effect" anywhere (disclaimer, didn't look very hard, only read the bullets, so it might get mentioned in the small print). Where will Thomas Cook and the like be if the Great British Public circle their wagons and stay at home for the first six months of 2019? Which, by the way, is increasingly the advice of any number of travel journalists.

Furthermore, I suspect the "deafening silence" is about to end, as TM takes every possible opportunity to scare the bejeezus out of everybody, to get her deal signed up. Please don't take my post as having the remotest bremain/brexit/deal/no deal bias. I long ago gave up giving any sort of a poop how this plays out. Like most now I am purely concerned with circling my own wagons and staying aware of likely outcomes, so in order to avoid the mucky stuff as it flies every which way.

Last edited by The Old Fat One; 28th Nov 2018 at 09:13.
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 08:56
  #528 (permalink)  
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Interestingly, I have just read a beeb article re the Public Accounts Committee fears over border disruption in the no deal scenario. They claim the Department for Transport has been too secretive about its plans. And the DfT reply:

'The DfT says preparations need to be kept secret to avoid them damaging the commercial interests of the firms involved'

That is pretty much exactly what I am saying above re the "silence" from the aviation sector.
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 16:12
  #529 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
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I have to say I am finding this increasingly difficult to follow because of all the differing interpretations of information!
So here's my 'two penneth';
The EU has issued a draft document expressing their wish is for the UK to remain in EASA after Brexit even in the event of a no-deal.
The UK CAA issued a statement expressing their preference is for the UK to remain in EASA.
TM's proposed deal expresses a wish to 'align' with EASA. What does this actually mean? Who knows for sure? Frankly you can discuss it until the cows come home. All I know is - it is surely in the interest of all holders of a 'professional qualification' to remain in EASA regardless of a deal or no-deal?
Personally I think TM is seeking a deal that keeps the UK in EASA until 2020 only to allow extra thinking time to fully assess the impact of leaving EASA because nobody is sure (just like the N.I. border).
Meanwhile we all sweat!
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 03:48
  #530 (permalink)  
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"Alignment" and "equivalence" are legal terms. Alignment actually means that you have to align your laws to those of the leading body (the EU in this case) with no divergence possible. Which of course would mean that the UK would have to incorporate EU law without any input to it, quite difficult in any case, and especially in this one. Equivalence means, that the individual legal approach of one country is deemed sufficiently equivalent to another that it allows to accept that set of laws to be equivalent, while not being the same. That happens between the EU and the US for example in quite a few areas (over 150 agreements between the EU and the US do exist today). However, equivalence can be cancelled by either side unilaterally with just 30 days notice, unless otherwise safeguarded. It needs constant work and consultation and is extremely labour intensive on the regulatory side for both parties.

That said, i haven't seen any statement of the EU (council or commission) that expresses any wish to keep the UK in EASA, just a preparatory notice that the EU would be willing to assume equivalence for the first few moments after a disorderly brexit, provided that the UK reciprocates, however, that is just an opinion for now and does not constitute a legal framework. As a "no deal" or rather disorderly brexit would become apparent a few weeks before brexit date, that could be hardened in emergency negotiations on that topic, however, for that it will compete with other stuff like medical transportation etc. as for example the UK cannot produce enough insulin on its own to keep its diabetics alive, most is imported from the EU. Air travel is important, but not necessarily a life or death scenario like other stuff is.
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 06:05
  #531 (permalink)  
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...As a "no deal" or rather disorderly brexit would become apparent a few weeks before brexit date...
I think (not 100% sure) that under Article 50 intended actions on a no-deal brexit have to be clarified on or about 21st of January.
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 01:54
  #532 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
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see questions 98-105
Deal or no-deal it would appear the UK is not committing to being a member of EASA by the 29th March because TM wants further negotiations regardless. The EU has previously stated all professional qualifications will be invalid after this date. Then again the other day the EU leaders agreed the proposed deal in principal didn't they? So they will agree to discuss after 29th March or not?
Better get your applications ready to covert boys & girls because even if this proposal is voted in it still doesn't commit us to staying in EASA. I'm losing the will to live.
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 02:06
  #533 (permalink)  
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Hopefully, being held hostage like this this will make other nations think more closely about giving up their sovereignty.
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 08:21
  #534 (permalink)  
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Having spoken to a lot of varied Europeans over the last few months it's clear that BREXIT has done for the idea of leaving the EU what Troy did for accepting gifts from Greeks...................
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 09:21
  #535 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Having spoken to a lot of varied Europeans over the last few months it's clear that BREXIT has done for the idea of leaving the EU what Troy did for accepting gifts from Greeks...................
if that makes us Brits the ancient Trojans then Iím with Lister:

People that stupid deserve to be kerpowed, zapped and kersplatted in their beds! You know what the big joke is? From this particular phase in history we derive the phrase, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts," when it would be much more logical to derive the phrase, "Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads!"
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:42
  #536 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Hopefully, being held hostage like this this will make other nations think more closely about giving up their sovereignty.
Held hostage? Well we ended up with these BREXIT rules thanks to.... a Brit.. Lord Kerr, who is the British author of Article 50

Just like the FTL rules at EASA that we got thanks to the UK CAA their campaign

Just in case you missed it PuraVida: the British politicians knew about the rules of Article 50 from day one as their civil servants wrote it! From DAY 1 it was clear that there were 6 scenario's... AND that there was no negotiations as such except on details. So go back to your politicians and ask them to stop lying to you and the press to do a better job in explaining a very clear SOP for leaving the EU. Pick one of the six scenarios and bugger off!
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 00:37
  #537 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
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de facto

Could someone please advise the fee for licence verification asked by the uk caa before transfering to another easa ? (Irish in my case).
Fees on the UK side:
- £45 for Licence Verification ( Form SRG 1160)
- £77 for transfer of your Medical Data

Fees on the Irish side:
- Ä600 for issue of an ATPL (do not know how much to issue a CPL, if that's your case)

PM if you want, or need, more info on the subject
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 13:32
  #538 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Good Afternoon,

I am trying to make sense of all the paperwork for a SOLI change to Ireland.

Please can anyone confirm that I didnt miss anything out?

heres what i think you have to do:-


SRG 1202 - transfer of medical records.
first part completed by pilot then sent to CAA for full completion with separate payment form SRG 1201.

SRG 2150 - application to release information to IAA for the SOLI change.
attachments -
  1. Certified copy of licence
  2. Examiner report forms
  3. Payment form FCS1500, which is included with the SRG 2150

The RPPL-F-100E which is sent direct to the IAA with
  1. copy of licence,
  2. copy of medical
  3. passport
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 18:57
  #539 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern Europe
Posts: 229

The important part, the thing that is going to set things in motion, is to send the " RPPL-F-100E" to the IAA.

By all means the forms that you need to be sent to the UK CAA are also important. However the UK CAA will not do anything until they receive a formal request from the IAA to provide information about the licence, and medical data, of the applicant that is applying to change SOLI.

de facto

About your question regarding the "licence copy must be certified", if your licence is "as issued by the CAA", in other words, if since it was issued by the CAA there were no handwritten entries made on the licence by a TRE, in case of an LPC, then the copy of the licence needs NOT to be certified. Search the UK CAA website for "How to get copies of your documents certified". At the end of the page it mentions what I wrote on this paragraph. If you however did any LPC's since your licence was issued, and this were endorsed on your licence by the TRE, then I'm afraid that you will have to certify the copy of your licence. There is an explanation on the CAA website on how to get this done.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 19:47
  #540 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: earth
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I dont understand why the UK CAA always has the need to recieve a virified copy of a license for the smallest things. They are they only CAA I know who require someone else to sign that they have seen the original...wtf...
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