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'Plane crash' at Nepal's Kathmandu airport

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'Plane crash' at Nepal's Kathmandu airport

Old 16th Mar 2018, 00:29
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Smott999
Have they found FDR/CVR?
On Mar 14th 2018 Nepal's CAA reported that the black boxes have been recovered, an accident investigation commission consisting of six people has been formed. Bangladesh as well as the aircraft manufacturer are participating in the investigation led by Nepal's CAA
Accident: US-Bangla DH8D at Kathmandu on Mar 12th 2018, landed across the runway and fell down slope
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 03:42
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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"Confirm you are VFR" may mean VMC. Not cancelling IFR as such. By the way, from the video it seems it's a bit hazy which could add to the confusion/stress situation. I think someone forgot to fly the plane... And I still would like to know who was flying and why the apparent switch in duties at that time in the approach.

I used to fly the DH8B (the -8-200) and it does have "a magenta line". However it's interface would make it incredibly complex (and quite a stupid decision I think) to try and do something with it at this stage of flight. Plus there wouldn't be too many benefits from doing something as the other side it's only a circle to land.

I'm very curious to the CRM factor on this one
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 05:17
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Allegedly it was F/Os first flight into KTM , was it a training flight . Young ( female , relevant in some cultures ) F/O and ex military captain . She may have have not been doing a lot in those last few minutes ?
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 06:28
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I would like to see a toxicology report on the Captain. Such erratic flying and radio phraseology is pretty suspicious.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 06:33
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Senior ex military captain , junior F/O ( female , culturally relevant ) first flight , allegedly, into KTM ( was it a training flight ) ? CRM ? She may have just been a passenger in the end ? Wait and see ?
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 10:14
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Yes CVR will be interesting. It does seem he took over comms. Does this mean he relegated FO to neither flying nor comms and tried to do both himself?

Also what would seemingly put him to the right of the approach path? Seeing that old runway and mistaking it for the main?
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 10:19
  #167 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Smott999
Yes CVR will be interesting. It does seem he took over comms. Does this mean he relegated FO to neither flying nor comms and tried to do both himself?

Also what would seemingly put him to the right of the approach path? Seeing that old runway and mistaking it for the main?
It's a Cat C airport so why would she be PF?
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 11:09
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Using the correct phrases is paramount in ATC and dare I say it on the flight deck as well.
VFR refers to the rules of flight and VMC refers to the the weather conditions. There is no chance that one "may mean" the other. That's a red herring you are introducing.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 11:55
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How often have you seen a older senior male 'showing' off to a young pretty junior....look how good I am..... and then ending in a nightmare!! Seen it in the cockpit and in ATC!!
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 14:36
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KAPAC
Allegedly it was F/Os first flight into KTM , was it a training flight . Young ( female , relevant in some cultures ) F/O and ex military captain . She may have have not been doing a lot in those last few minutes ?
Pilots- male or female at one point or other have to fly to a new airport. Training flights have additional risk, that is why there is an IP in the cockpit.

Things turned bad pretty fast. One single thing cannot be blamed and is never a root cause of a crash. Loss of situational awareness, communication breakdown, engine failure, MELs& MX, weather, traffic, psychological and physical state of pilots can all play a role. Everything needs to be scrtunized.
I have flown in and out of VNKT as a local pilot many times and now fly all over the world. The controllers are not any different than in other Asian countries. Lack of resources and information inhibits their abilities.
Pilots don't have the luxury of ILS or precise radar vectors. It is a VOR DME approach with lot of pressure. The terrain can be intimidating if you see it visually from a cockpit.
Various questions needs to be answered- automation, what was being used and what was MEL? Was it hand flown all the way? Was the traffic a problem? Hearing the ATC recording the pilot seems quite calm but the ATC is being frantic about the Dash8 flying towards wrong runway.
02 and 20 is easy to confuse but you have an (MFD) ND that clearly shows the runway that is active for the approach.
ATC and pilots are both responsible for a safe landing.

I hope they find a root cause and can improve things and avoid similar accidents. Bangladesh and Nepal are two very corrupt countries and the report can change and have a common conclusion. Has happened before!
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 16:30
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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I guess I wasn't sure the Cap sounded calm, vs more groggy/unclear IMO.
It seemed as if he took over Comms so one wonders if he was still PF also.

Perhaps he just drifted offline w the westerly wind, wound up right of the centerline and figured he could save it by going downwind and coming back on 20.

CVR will hold a lot of details.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 16:39
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Possible flight path
https://www.nepalitimes.com/banner/20-by-02/
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 17:10
  #173 (permalink)  
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if the drawing is correct it turned downwind for 20 , not overflying 02 , so the TWR question if he was VFR (as opposed to VMC) appears to be correct.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 17:30
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Smott999
Wow, they weren't kidding when they called it a circle to land.

An interesting detail from the story linked above:

Apparently, this was Capt Sultans fifth flight of the day, and he had just sent in his resignation to the US-Bangla management in order to join a Gulf airline.
Originally Posted by portmanteau
VFR refers to the rules of flight and VMC refers to the the weather conditions. There is no chance that one "may mean" the other. That's a red herring you are introducing.
I disagree. I've certainly heard VFR used to mean in visual conditions on more than one occasion. From context I think VFR was probably used by the tower controller to mean visual conditions in this case.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 17:51
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The article makes it sound like that airport is known for stacking the arriving aircraft.

Perhaps another reason Cap did not want to GA and get back in line?...
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 17:59
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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That link said it was his 5th flight of the day and he was working his notice as he'd quit......
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 19:16
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
That link said it was his 5th flight of the day and he was working his notice as he'd quit......
Probably coincidental but the captain on the Flydubai 981 crash two years ago was in a similar status.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 01:37
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
Wow, they weren't kidding when they called it a circle to land.

An interesting detail from the story linked above:





I disagree. I've certainly heard VFR used to mean in visual conditions on more than one occasion. From context I think VFR was probably used by the tower controller to mean visual conditions in this case.
The path looks quite different than it should be if you are cleared from Guras to continue the approach. In this case the approach would be VOR DME 02! But the flight path might be exaggerated. Most probably trying to do a 360 at low altitude combined with fatigue due to 5th flight(that is some long hours for the day resulting in fatigue); this might have resulted in loss of SA, confusion and a stall! Combined effect!

VFR in this context certainly means VMC conditions in this case.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 05:46
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Smott999
The article makes it sound like that airport is known for stacking the arriving aircraft.

Perhaps another reason Cap did not want to GA and get back in line?...
it's a long way around to GURAS to start the VOR 02 approach, fuel perhaps?

I've seen "stacking" over GURAS prior to commencing the approach, but never in the immediate vicinity of the airport on a regular basis for IFR arrivals,
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 12:32
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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ZFT wrote:

It's a Cat C airport so why would she be PF?
It's a company SOP thing. There's no blanket prohibition on this.
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