'Plane crash' at Nepal's Kathmandu airport
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Out of interest, which airport was that? Having spent considerable portions of the last 6 years working alongside CAAN to improve weather situational awareness amongst controllers and pilots this is not something I've ever encountered. Whilst not up to the standard of, say, UK or Australian controllers those working in Nepal are not nearly as bad as the (outdated) stereotypes would suggest.
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I flew A330 in there for a few years, VOR DME and minus 5,7 degree approach until 3-4 DME and then reduce to minus 3,5 degree and intercept PAPI. This is not the airport to be mucking around in or pulling a circling to land, without even informing the ATC or perhaps not briefing it. You take the tail wind or you go-around and start again from the top at 13500ft.
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Amsterdam, Rome, how many airports to name that are guilty of that, keep the noise abatement runways open....so why when you were there didn’t you attempt to bring them up to your exacting Australian standards?
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The RNAV-AR one is not for everybody , there are strict pre-conditions and it appears this Bengladesh DH8 ( or its crew) was not approved. It is still VOR-DME today for some.
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Ironically, later generation Q400s have an RNP AR option.
The Turkish A330 that went off the runway in fog was flying the RNP AR approach.
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seems I have seen DHC-8 aircraft at Dhaka airport with the name United something or other...a regional based there...many moons ago...wonder if it's the same outfit
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As some have said, the whole 02/20 thing is contributory, at best. From the ATC recording, it's the aircraft who first deviates from what they were cleared (abnormal path, prompting ATC to ask if they are flying to RWY20). The altitude plot is quite surprising; climbing to over 6000ft, not too stable an altitude (apparently not maintaining traffic pattern altitude). Could there be a case of reporting VFR but not actually being that VMC? It's weird a tower ATCO asks if they are in VMC, particularly at a predominantly VFR airport, based on what some have said here. I recall the metar said VCTS, could it be that some clouds were interfering and they just reported VMC when asked so they could land?
Moreover, I'd like to know why the switch in pilot in comms. Did they switch roles? Had the Capt taken over both PF/comm duties? Who was flying the plane?
Moreover, I'd like to know why the switch in pilot in comms. Did they switch roles? Had the Capt taken over both PF/comm duties? Who was flying the plane?
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A map showing the flight track overlaid with a weather radar picture might be interesting. I doubt though that a ground-based WX radar is available at KTM, having read that not even an official ATC radar unit is in operation at the field...
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Long time lurker on this forum. Finally signed up.
I witnessed the final ~10 seconds of the flight before it crashed. Hope my description helps narrow down the scenarios of what may have happened.
Was driving northwards on Ring Road just west of the fuel depot at Sinamangal when I saw the plane fly very low across the airport buildings, turning from a northwesterly heading to a southwesterly heading. From my viewpoint It flew BEHIND the airport control tower, somewhere around the domestic terminal. (A taxi driver on the domestic parking lot reported that its wing almost touched the roof of the Nepal Airlines Hangar).
I lost sight of it briefly because of a tree, and then saw it flew towards me and across towards my right going very close to the southern corner of the international terminal, heading towards the runway near taxiway D, at a heading of perhaps 150 degrees. By that time the wings were level and the plane was slightly descending, but it appeared to be flying faster than a plane that was trying to land. Its sound was probably picked up on ATC audio while flying southwards on the west side of the tower (over the parking lot) I lost sight again as it disappeared behind higher terrain (The road I was on is lower than the runway), and seconds later saw a big plume of smoke from behind the runway.
Am trying to upload a sketch of what I saw but as a new poster here I don't seem to be able to post a link yet.
When the plane was doing the sharp turn left over the airport buildings my first thought was of the Transasia crash in Taipei.
Today I heard of witnesses talking about the plane buzzing Kapan hill (~4 km north of the runway 20 threshold) a few minutes before the crash, so it sounds like it may have flown north past the airport, did a turn towards 20 near Kapan hill, came back, missed 20, flew on towards the southern end of the airport or beyond, turned north again and appeared over the airport when I saw it (although I cannot tell whether it was aligned with the runway or not when it started its banked turn to the left over the airport buildings). Did it stall while doing the right turn over the airport buildings and was it too low to recover and then just aimed for an empty spot on the runway? At the time of the crash Jet Airways 266 had just pulled into position 1 (passengers disembarking), Thai was in position 2 (getting ready for take off), Malindo was backing out into the taxiway, while near taxiway E I saw one Buddha Air ATR and one smaller turboprop (most likely a Yeti J41) waiting to enter the runway.
I witnessed the final ~10 seconds of the flight before it crashed. Hope my description helps narrow down the scenarios of what may have happened.
Was driving northwards on Ring Road just west of the fuel depot at Sinamangal when I saw the plane fly very low across the airport buildings, turning from a northwesterly heading to a southwesterly heading. From my viewpoint It flew BEHIND the airport control tower, somewhere around the domestic terminal. (A taxi driver on the domestic parking lot reported that its wing almost touched the roof of the Nepal Airlines Hangar).
I lost sight of it briefly because of a tree, and then saw it flew towards me and across towards my right going very close to the southern corner of the international terminal, heading towards the runway near taxiway D, at a heading of perhaps 150 degrees. By that time the wings were level and the plane was slightly descending, but it appeared to be flying faster than a plane that was trying to land. Its sound was probably picked up on ATC audio while flying southwards on the west side of the tower (over the parking lot) I lost sight again as it disappeared behind higher terrain (The road I was on is lower than the runway), and seconds later saw a big plume of smoke from behind the runway.
Am trying to upload a sketch of what I saw but as a new poster here I don't seem to be able to post a link yet.
When the plane was doing the sharp turn left over the airport buildings my first thought was of the Transasia crash in Taipei.
Today I heard of witnesses talking about the plane buzzing Kapan hill (~4 km north of the runway 20 threshold) a few minutes before the crash, so it sounds like it may have flown north past the airport, did a turn towards 20 near Kapan hill, came back, missed 20, flew on towards the southern end of the airport or beyond, turned north again and appeared over the airport when I saw it (although I cannot tell whether it was aligned with the runway or not when it started its banked turn to the left over the airport buildings). Did it stall while doing the right turn over the airport buildings and was it too low to recover and then just aimed for an empty spot on the runway? At the time of the crash Jet Airways 266 had just pulled into position 1 (passengers disembarking), Thai was in position 2 (getting ready for take off), Malindo was backing out into the taxiway, while near taxiway E I saw one Buddha Air ATR and one smaller turboprop (most likely a Yeti J41) waiting to enter the runway.
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I wondered also about Cap assuming both comm and PF duties. The female FO seemed the only one clear, and presumably on Comm at the start , w him PF.
At one point she said "go ahead sir" and a second later he says "go ahead mam". Perhaps at this point he decides to Comm also?
Plus him confirming both 20 and 02 a couple of times in succession, he did NOT sound on the ball at all.
The CVR will be interesting.
At one point she said "go ahead sir" and a second later he says "go ahead mam". Perhaps at this point he decides to Comm also?
Plus him confirming both 20 and 02 a couple of times in succession, he did NOT sound on the ball at all.
The CVR will be interesting.
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Initial reports said that the captain survived, however it now appears that all four crewmembers are deceased:
https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2018...govt-doc-shows
Pictures of the pilots in this article:
US-Bangla plane crash: Pilot Abid, 3 other cabin crew confirmed dead
The document confirmed the deaths of pilot Abid Sultan, co-pilot Prithula Rashid and crew members Khwaja Hussain Md Shafey and Sharmeen Akhter Nabila, clearing confusion over the fate of the airline officials.
Pictures of the pilots in this article:
US-Bangla plane crash: Pilot Abid, 3 other cabin crew confirmed dead
Throwing Occam’s razor out there, I wonder if this will be a case of runway confusion followed by heads buried in the box? Does a DHC8-400 have a magenta line?
IF this is the case, it is once again a wake up call to all of us that no matter what happens, flying the aircraft is our ultimate responsibility.
IF this is the case, it is once again a wake up call to all of us that no matter what happens, flying the aircraft is our ultimate responsibility.
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circle to land clearance
I refer to the transcript and the tape.
BS211 reported to be " .. on final RWY 02 .."
TOWER consequently responded ".. continue approach ..".
TOWER: "BS211 ... RWY 02 cleared to land"
BS211 confirmed ".. cleared to land.." assuming RWY 02
If the crew intended to execute a circle to land procedure the phraseology should have been different for the initial call including "circle to land". The tower should responded consequently "BS211 continue VOR DME approach RWY 02 circle to land RWY 20" but not including a landing clearance.
BS211 reported to be " .. on final RWY 02 .."
TOWER consequently responded ".. continue approach ..".
TOWER: "BS211 ... RWY 02 cleared to land"
BS211 confirmed ".. cleared to land.." assuming RWY 02
If the crew intended to execute a circle to land procedure the phraseology should have been different for the initial call including "circle to land". The tower should responded consequently "BS211 continue VOR DME approach RWY 02 circle to land RWY 20" but not including a landing clearance.
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Throwing Occam’s razor out there, I wonder if this will be a case of runway confusion followed by heads buried in the box? Does a DHC8-400 have a magenta line?
IF this is the case, it is once again a wake up call to all of us that no matter what happens, flying the aircraft is our ultimate responsibility.
IF this is the case, it is once again a wake up call to all of us that no matter what happens, flying the aircraft is our ultimate responsibility.
Not always easy to set up, even more in a rush or if not really confident with how to do it, I won't be surprised if on the CVR, pilots tried to save all with the FMS ...
I don't know how was equipped with the plane, but I saw it was delivered to SAS in 2001, so probably the plane was equipped with only 1 FMS on cpt side, so if FO do set up, you need to go through the power levers and condition levers to the cpt side to do the FMS, really good to do "monitoring in the same time". If now the plane is equipped with 2 FMS ... Depending of the software version, the don t speak together (only last software allows them to share info), meaning does not change anything, the PM need to do the set up in the PF FMS then do what he did in his FMS ... And if now you think, the PM could do all in his FMS then the 2 pilot would have the source set to the PM FMS, so both pilots would see the same on their PFD and MFD ... Nop !!! You can only change the source of the PFD, on the MFD, cpt side will be always showing FMS1 and FO side FMS 2 ... I don't know how the engineers of bombardier managed to come with that but ...
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Long time lurker on this forum. Finally signed up.
I witnessed the final ~10 seconds of the flight before it crashed. Hope my description helps narrow down the scenarios of what may have happened.
Was driving northwards on Ring Road just west of the fuel depot at Sinamangal when I saw the plane fly very low across the airport buildings, turning from a northwesterly heading to a southwesterly heading. From my viewpoint It flew BEHIND the airport control tower, somewhere around the domestic terminal. (A taxi driver on the domestic parking lot reported that its wing almost touched the roof of the Nepal Airlines Hangar).
I lost sight of it briefly because of a tree, and then saw it flew towards me and across towards my right going very close to the southern corner of the international terminal, heading towards the runway near taxiway D, at a heading of perhaps 150 degrees. By that time the wings were level and the plane was slightly descending, but it appeared to be flying faster than a plane that was trying to land. Its sound was probably picked up on ATC audio while flying southwards on the west side of the tower (over the parking lot) I lost sight again as it disappeared behind higher terrain (The road I was on is lower than the runway), and seconds later saw a big plume of smoke from behind the runway.
Am trying to upload a sketch of what I saw but as a new poster here I don't seem to be able to post a link yet.
When the plane was doing the sharp turn left over the airport buildings my first thought was of the Transasia crash in Taipei.
Today I heard of witnesses talking about the plane buzzing Kapan hill (~4 km north of the runway 20 threshold) a few minutes before the crash, so it sounds like it may have flown north past the airport, did a turn towards 20 near Kapan hill, came back, missed 20, flew on towards the southern end of the airport or beyond, turned north again and appeared over the airport when I saw it (although I cannot tell whether it was aligned with the runway or not when it started its banked turn to the left over the airport buildings). Did it stall while doing the right turn over the airport buildings and was it too low to recover and then just aimed for an empty spot on the runway? At the time of the crash Jet Airways 266 had just pulled into position 1 (passengers disembarking), Thai was in position 2 (getting ready for take off), Malindo was backing out into the taxiway, while near taxiway E I saw one Buddha Air ATR and one smaller turboprop (most likely a Yeti J41) waiting to enter the runway.
I witnessed the final ~10 seconds of the flight before it crashed. Hope my description helps narrow down the scenarios of what may have happened.
Was driving northwards on Ring Road just west of the fuel depot at Sinamangal when I saw the plane fly very low across the airport buildings, turning from a northwesterly heading to a southwesterly heading. From my viewpoint It flew BEHIND the airport control tower, somewhere around the domestic terminal. (A taxi driver on the domestic parking lot reported that its wing almost touched the roof of the Nepal Airlines Hangar).
I lost sight of it briefly because of a tree, and then saw it flew towards me and across towards my right going very close to the southern corner of the international terminal, heading towards the runway near taxiway D, at a heading of perhaps 150 degrees. By that time the wings were level and the plane was slightly descending, but it appeared to be flying faster than a plane that was trying to land. Its sound was probably picked up on ATC audio while flying southwards on the west side of the tower (over the parking lot) I lost sight again as it disappeared behind higher terrain (The road I was on is lower than the runway), and seconds later saw a big plume of smoke from behind the runway.
Am trying to upload a sketch of what I saw but as a new poster here I don't seem to be able to post a link yet.
When the plane was doing the sharp turn left over the airport buildings my first thought was of the Transasia crash in Taipei.
Today I heard of witnesses talking about the plane buzzing Kapan hill (~4 km north of the runway 20 threshold) a few minutes before the crash, so it sounds like it may have flown north past the airport, did a turn towards 20 near Kapan hill, came back, missed 20, flew on towards the southern end of the airport or beyond, turned north again and appeared over the airport when I saw it (although I cannot tell whether it was aligned with the runway or not when it started its banked turn to the left over the airport buildings). Did it stall while doing the right turn over the airport buildings and was it too low to recover and then just aimed for an empty spot on the runway? At the time of the crash Jet Airways 266 had just pulled into position 1 (passengers disembarking), Thai was in position 2 (getting ready for take off), Malindo was backing out into the taxiway, while near taxiway E I saw one Buddha Air ATR and one smaller turboprop (most likely a Yeti J41) waiting to enter the runway.
well that certainly would account for the confusion........... all over the shop it seems
Last edited by Heathrow Harry; 14th Mar 2018 at 12:57.
