Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Air China CA428 Near-Miss CFIT at take-off in HK

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Air China CA428 Near-Miss CFIT at take-off in HK

Old 5th Jun 2017, 08:14
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: HK
Age: 29
Posts: 2
Air China CA428 Near-Miss CFIT at take-off in HK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ycqp6KYfyM

Air China flight has near miss with mountain on Hong Kong?s Lantau Island | South China Morning Post
Lliane is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2017, 19:29
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 44
Not the first time in that area: Shenzhen Airlines plane in near miss with Hong Kong's Big Buddha, East Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

I also had flown on a mainland carrier whose FR24 track (after landing, in the dark) put us pretty much on top of the said statue and at a height just a few hundred feet above.
brak is online now  
Old 5th Jun 2017, 20:13
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ban Chiang,Thailand
Age: 62
Posts: 130
Mainland Chinese carriers have had a remarkable run of luck, with no crashes for a number of years. This cannot last...........
Thaihawk is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2017, 23:41
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,378
China Southern alarmed ATC with an early turn towards a hill not too long ago.
Metro man is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2017, 00:32
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NV USA
Posts: 171
Wrong runway in the box?
cappt is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2017, 03:28
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 868
Way I hear it, Departure gave instruction "Climb FL130" and F/O heard "Fly heading 130" and dialed in the turn.

As you can hear from the recording linked in the original post, CA428's radio was not operating 5-by-5.
pattern_is_full is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:41
  #7 (permalink)  

I Have Control
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Windlesham
Posts: 1,162
Safety Briefing? MSA/High Ground on departure? EGPWS? Did these come into play?
RoyHudd is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2017, 18:31
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,517
S.A? ATC: "Say again?"
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2017, 03:44
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 7,592
Way I hear it, Departure gave instruction "Climb FL130" and F/O heard "Fly heading 130" and dialed in the turn.
I wonder what the readback to ATC was... or is that your point, Rat?
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2017, 05:01
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 733
Level 6 for all my friends!
Pontius is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2017, 12:07
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 425
Forget the english language, even if that's what they read back is there any justification for turning right towards a mountain?
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2017, 05:11
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Asia
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s View Post
Forget the english language, even if that's what they read back is there any justification for turning right towards a mountain?
Not a pilot, but I think the mountain is left. Forgive me if I've got my aviation terms confused...
oblivia is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2017, 12:32
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 46
I think 80's is using "right" as in "turning directly towards a mountain." They turned left but it was directly towards the mountain.
MichaelKPIT is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2017, 17:03
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 128
Briefing never cover MSA?

Anyhow fly.
wongsuzie is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2017, 12:44
  #15 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 68
Posts: 2,501
Humpmedumpme ; in case you do not know ( but my guess is that you do ) Hong Kong ATC ( and CAA) are not operating and trained the same way as mainland PRC and they do not follow the same rules.

The generic R/T exchange you posted is unfortunately reflecting the current sate of affairs in the PRC , where the whole airspace is military . Chinese controllers ,like everywhere else on the globe , have to follow the rules imposed on them , and are as much frustrated as you do having to say " negative " all the time.

I have read t recently that there are intentions to take some airspace away from the military to extend the civil areas of responsibilities, but these are definitively political decisions which are not in the hands of ATC .

Last edited by ATC Watcher; 9th Jun 2017 at 12:46. Reason: typo
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 03:10
  #16 (permalink)  
bpp
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA., USA
Posts: 57
I attended a Chinese CAA meeting for foreign carriers addressing the rapid growth in the airline sector. During this meeting a question was asked why various airways are blocked by the military. The CAA representative stated it was not military control of the airways rather it was the lack of English speaking Controllers to service that route.
bpp is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 04:11
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 422
There are more English speakers in china than India now .

Last edited by Toruk Macto; 3rd Jul 2017 at 09:04.
Toruk Macto is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 05:23
  #18 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 68
Posts: 2,501
bpp :
The CAA representative stated it was not military control of the airways rather it was the lack of English speaking Controllers to service that route.
That remark is possibly true for expansion ( i.e opening new sectors or routes ) but does not stand when talking about releasing airspace around existing routes to allow proper efficient ATC and address safety related issues like CBs deviations.
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2017, 22:06
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by Toruk Macto View Post
There is more English speakers in china than India now .
There 'are'
A340Yumyum is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2017, 23:32
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: KGRB, but on the road about 1/2 the time.
Age: 56
Posts: 597
There are many routes in China that foreign carriers are not allowed to fly on, because the controllers for those routes are not English speakers.
atpcliff is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.