Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

UPS contract plane off runway - KCRW

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

UPS contract plane off runway - KCRW

Old 5th May 2017, 14:39
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 78
Posts: 4,579
UPS contract plane off runway - KCRW

Now reporting two killed. This is a hilltop runway at a joint civil-military field.

Cargo plane goes off runway at West Virginia airport - Cincinnati News, FOX19-WXIX TV
barit1 is offline  
Old 5th May 2017, 14:52
  #2 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 78
Posts: 4,579
background on KCRW

Eight years ago - remember the depressurized 733?

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...ger+charleston
barit1 is offline  
Old 5th May 2017, 14:55
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Isla Grande
Posts: 951
Air Cargo Carriers Short SD-330
gearlever is offline  
Old 5th May 2017, 17:16
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,834
From LiveATC.net, SNC 1260 was cleared for the VOR-A runway 5 at CRW. Wind check 200/5.

Metar from the AvHerald article:

KCRW 051054Z 23003KT 10SM FEW001 OVC005 14/13 A2941 RMK AO2 SLP952 VLY FG T01440133=

VOR-A chart here:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1705/00852VA.PDF

From news photos of the recovery activity it appears that the plane departed the runway to the left near the touchdown zone for runway 5 and the fuselage went down the side of the hill.

Last edited by Airbubba; 5th May 2017 at 18:07.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 5th May 2017, 19:24
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
From local news report:

The National Weather Service said winds were calm and there was valley fog, no fog was reported at the airport at the time of the crash.

“I viewed two videos,” Kanawha County Commissioner Ben Salango said. “It came in at a very strange angle. It hit on its left wing first and the landing gear detached and it careened over the hillside.”

The left wing was in the grass just off the runway.

Salango said a woman who lives in the Lincoln County community of Yawkey called the airport and reported hearing an aircraft making a strange noise and going very fast. Sayre said that would have been the flight path for a plane approaching Yeager from Louisville.

There was no communication to the tower that the airplane was having problems, officials said.
More: WV MetroNews | Plane Crash at Yaeger Airport; Yeager Airport closed
peekay4 is offline  
Old 5th May 2017, 22:31
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 210
Charlie West

First time i went in there was at 2am with an engine fire in a twin cessna. (Red sky at night engine's alight..)
Seeing the approach the following morning i'd have just let out burn...
The FAA installed EMAS there a while back; it caught a CRJ 2 aborting due to a takeoff config warning Accident: PSA Airlines CRJ2 at Charleston on Jan 19th 2010, overran runway on takeoff
I believe there was a landslide more recently and the overrun slipped into coal country.
Given the state of the job market here i'm surprised the operators could staff a service like this...
neilki is offline  
Old 6th May 2017, 01:37
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas, like a whole other country
Posts: 428
Given the state of the job market here i'm surprised the operators could staff a service like this...
There was a recent thread in Freight Dogs about this carrier, which is basically a feeder from smaller cities to the larger freight hubs. I suppose the predictability of the operation might appeal to some. RIP to the crew.

http://www.pprune.org/freight-dogs/5...ml#post9743582

Press release on company website
Carbon Bootprint is offline  
Old 6th May 2017, 12:00
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: _
Posts: 350
N334AC/SH3029 which started its life with Loganair in Glasgow as G-BGNA in 1979.
dontdoit is offline  
Old 6th May 2017, 18:43
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Between a Rock and a Hard Spot
Posts: 199
Also known as "Charlie West."
HEMS driver is offline  
Old 6th May 2017, 18:51
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,834
Here is Bill English's NTSB briefing from Friday evening. He says that two AAIB investigators will come from the UK as parties to the investigation.



It looks like the minimum descent height on the VOR-A is 619 feet above the field with DME to identify FOGAG. The reported 500 foot ceiling would make this approach challenging, to say the least, in my experience.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 02:36
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,834
Bill English gives his second and final onsite briefing about the accident investigation. I am surprised that a large (over 12,500 lbs.) turbine powered aircraft in a scheduled operation is not required to have a CVR or FDR. Is this one of those cargo cutouts in the FAA regs?



Here's the customary NTSB b-roll video that the media splice into their news reports about the crash:



Some pictures of the runway damage and drone mapping of the accident site:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ntsb/s...7680389042423/

The crew names have been released:

CHARLESTON, WV (WCHS/WVAH) — Yeager Airport has released the names of the two victims in Friday’s deadly plane crash.

Johnathan [sic - it may actually be Jonathan - Airbubba] Pablo Alvarado, 47, of Stamford, Texas and Anh K. Ho, 31, of Cross Lanes were killed Friday morning after their Short 330 twin-engine turbo plane crashed during landing at Yeager Airport, according to a news release from the airport.

Alvarado and Ho were the only people on board.
Names of pilot, co-pilot killed in Yeager Airport plane crash released | WVAH
Airbubba is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 10:45
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Qwerty
Posts: 379
Probably totally fatigued, awful time of morning and a difficult approach in a far from sophisticated aircraft.

Last edited by Council Van; 14th Sep 2018 at 07:54.
Council Van is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 13:19
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: At home
Age: 60
Posts: 136
I will make this observation, at the risk of over generalizing.... This flight was operated under FAR part 135, (I think), and therefore not subject to the ATP requirement for passenger Part 121 operations in the US.

Here is a positing from Air Cargo Carriers on AirlinePilotCentral.com regarding pilot hiring.
Is Hiring?: Yes Next Estimated FO Hiring Event: July 2017

First Officer Requirements: Commercial MEL Rated/500 TT (preferred)

Starting May 1st, 2017-

If you take a low time pilot, minimal experience and add to that minimal training at the carrier, then we are likely to see more of these accidents. The available pilot pool is very dry now and if have a pulse and license you get hired somewhere. It's great experience, if you don't have an accident like this one. I think airfreight pilots make some of the best pilots out there. It is a very unforgiving type of operation and requires constant vigilance to stay safe. The learning curve is very steep, especially for the inexperienced.

I think we need to get used to seeing more of these, unfortunately.
Zaphod Beblebrox is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 15:00
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,509
Looking at the VOR A chart given in post #4 it is indeed a challenging approach. Was it daylight or just dawn, but the low cloud would have made it darker and there are no approach lights. It is 29 degrees off the centreline and a strange profile. There is no published DME/ALT table for the final descent, only MINS at 6nm and MPA at 8nm = threshold. Height loss is 1280' in 6nm. (Normally a 3degree slope would be 1920'.) This is very flat as a CDA, so suggests a dive & drive with a level segment. There you are, level, full landing flap, higher power, nose up, 800/700'AGL, searching for only threshold lights at 2nm (min vis required is also 1-2nm depending on category.) The ROD from 700' to 50' TCHT is about 3 degrees, but from 800' steeper. You see the runways lights late, off to the left; there is a slight delay in transiting to final descent from level flight and end up with high ROD and turning to gain the centre line, all with a tailwind. Someone was giving OVC 005. Good game. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen, to me.
And how can you have a min vis of 1nm with DH 700' if there are no approach lights? Am missing something?
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 15:01
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,294
Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post

It looks like the minimum descent height on the VOR-A is 619 feet above the field with DME to identify FOGAG. The reported 500 foot ceiling would make this approach challenging, to say the least, in my experience.
Perhaps there was an issue with the airplane's DME. Otherwise the LOC Rwy 5 would have been a far better choice. Or, with that slight wind, the ILS 23 would have been an even better choice, no DME required.
aterpster is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 15:21
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,294
Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
And how can you have a min vis of 1nm with DH 700' if there are no approach lights? Am missing something?
It's an MDA not a DA (or DH if you prefer). And, the 1 mile is for Approach Categories A and B only. The HAA of an MDA is geometrically permissive for A and B.

Also, these are circle-to-land-only minimums (that's why it's VOR-A, not VOR Rwy 05), which have their own set of traps for the unwary. And, the final approach course radial is 31 degrees different than the runway center-line.

All in all, quite the non-precision IAP.

Last edited by aterpster; 7th May 2017 at 16:12. Reason: Corrected "HAT" to "HAA."
aterpster is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 16:15
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,294
FWIW, attached are the TERPs CTL minima. These apply when either alignment or descent gradient don't permit straight-in minimums.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
TERPs CTL minimums.jpg (102.8 KB, 70 views)
aterpster is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 16:28
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 57
Posts: 1,552
Originally Posted by aterpster View Post
Perhaps there was an issue with the airplane's DME. Otherwise the LOC Rwy 5 would have been a far better choice. Or, with that slight wind, the ILS 23 would have been an even better choice, no DME required.
The wind, light though it may be, was favoring the ILS 23. Would have been a slight tailwind for landing 05
A Squared is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 17:55
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,294
Correct. The other weather factors favored Runway 23 even more.

We don't know where the flight came on to the TRACON's radar. Perhaps the position favored least remaining track miles to Runway 5. Presumably, we will find that out, or perhaps someone already has.

EDIT: Note the ILS 23 and LOC 05 have a common frequency. Odds are ATC had the ILS 23 configured, which would have made the LOC 05 not readily available.

Last edited by aterpster; 7th May 2017 at 18:07. Reason: add note
aterpster is offline  
Old 7th May 2017, 20:06
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
A couple key questions at this point:

1. There's a report that the aircraft struck trees on final approach. Has this been substantiated?

2. There are witness statements and apparently more than one surveillance video showing the aircraft landing at a "very strange angle". What could be the cause? Sudden gust / windshear? Last minute side-slip? Mechanical trouble?
peekay4 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.