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USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight

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USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight

Old 14th Apr 2017, 16:43
  #961 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
There is a mess of overlapping parties. A United gate agent summoned airport security officers, who work for the city. The crew that operated the aircraft—as well as the crew members who arrived after a full plane had been boarded, resulting in United telling four passengers they had to get off the flight—worked for Republic.[/url]
And several unions involved:

United pilots: ALPA (as far as I know they were not directly involved in the incident)
United customer service representatives: International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers
Republic pilots: Teamsters
Republic flight attendants: Teamsters
Chicago Aviation Police: Service Employees International Union

Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
The pilot's letter reflects their frustration after United became the subject of public outrage from the U.S. to China, as well as memes, jokes and unwanted congressional attention.
Here is the United ALPA MEC statement:

April 13, 2017

UAL MEC Statement Regarding United Express Flight 3411

As the story of United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic Airline, continues to virally circulate in the news and on social media, your United Master Executive Council (MEC) has intentionally withheld judgment because of the rapid pace at which information, both accurate and inaccurate, has been released and manipulated.

The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter. United pilots are infuriated by this event. This occurred on one of our contracted Express carriers, separately owned and operated by Republic Airline, and was ultimately caused by the grossly inappropriate response by the Chicago Department of Aviation.

It is important to review these baseline facts:

1. This violent incident should never have happened and was a result of gross excessive force by Chicago Department of Aviation personnel.

2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.

3. Social media ire should properly be directed at the Chicago Aviation Department.

4. This occurred on an Express flight operated by Republic Airline, as such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of Republic Airline, not United Airlines.

5. United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines, the actions of the Chicago Department of Aviation, and the actions of our Express partner, Republic Airline.

On April 9, 2017, United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic, was preparing to depart Chicago O’Hare (ORD) to Louisville (SDF). Republic Airline made the decision to assign four of their crewmembers to deadhead on Flight 3411 within minutes of the scheduled departure. Although four passengers would have to be removed from this flight to accommodate the Republic crew, the goal was to get the other 70 passengers on their way to SDF and ensure a flight crew needed the next day would also be in place. By all reports, the Republic flight crew was courteous and calm throughout the event, and three passengers left the flight voluntarily for compensation. After repeatedly asking the fourth passenger to give up his seat to no avail, the gate agent requested the assistance of law enforcement.

For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew, the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger. Members of local airport law enforcement are normally important security partners who assist aircrews in ensuring the safety of everyone on the airplane. This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat.

United pilots have always been the true leaders of this company, and our fellow employees count on us to continue to do what we do best—deliver a world class product and safely transport our passengers around the world. We cannot let this huge distraction affect our ability to do our jobs. We have successfully flown through more turbulent times, and we will weather this storm as well.

Ultimately, United must be measured by more than this one incident on a single United Express flight; this airline is comprised of more than 82,000 employees, including over 12,500 pilots, working every day to safely fly around the globe. For 91 years, United has earned the trust of millions of passengers, and we will continue earning their trust, despite the incident on this United Express flight. The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again.
https://www.alpa.org/~/media/UAL/Fil...2017-04-13.pdf
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 16:51
  #962 (permalink)  
 
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2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.
A United (not Republic) gate employee likely started the chain of events, which included contacting the airport authority who sent the three "officers" to physically remove an already boarded passenger, in clear violation of the United CoC.

The United gate agent didn't physically touch Dr. Dao, but by initiating the chain of events was indeed involved.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 17:21
  #963 (permalink)  
 
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Ultimately, United must be measured by more than this one incident on a single United Express flight; this airline is comprised of more than 82,000 employees, including over 12,500 pilots, working every day to safely fly around the globe. For 91 years, United has earned the trust of millions of passengers..
Very true indeed. Bullying United should stop ,enough is enough. This isolated incident should not impact the 82k workers and their families.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 17:23
  #964 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure if this has already been mentioned but I think the United vs Republic debate is the airline talking out of both sides of their mouth

United (and all the other US majors) set up a system where mainline flying was outsourced to the lowest bidder. Republic is generally acknowledged as the scummiest of a rather pathetic collection of US Regional airlines.

When those regionals were beefing up the bosses bonuses by driving down pay and work conditions , they where "an Integral and Essential part of the United family " to quote from Mr Munez. So United attempts to run away from the operation they created is more than a little self serving.

And speaking of self serving the United pilots union where complicit in United management plans of throwing the regional pilots under the bus, so what goes around comes around.........
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 17:25
  #965 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by _Phoenix View Post
Very true indeed. Bullying United should stop ,enough is enough. This isolated incident should not impact the 82k workers and their families.
So people should stop discussing the multiple documented incidents (hardly isolated) of bullying by UAL, because that would be bullying?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 17:40
  #966 (permalink)  
 
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No. I wasn't clear enough, I mean in general in media, as example Jimmy advertising.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 17:46
  #967 (permalink)  
 
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United pilots are infuriated by this event.
Is it only this (Republic) event or are they also infuriated by all the other disgraceful and humiliating events suffered by other UA mainline passengers on their watch?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:01
  #968 (permalink)  
 
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Very true indeed. Bullying United should stop ,enough is enough. This isolated incident should not impact the 82k workers and their families.
Why should this incident impact on UA employees?

As I understand it we are discussing the events which led to the physical beating of a valid ticketed passenger, who committed no crime and who did not display any aggression toward anyone, but who was nevertheless physically removed from his allocated (and paid for) seat after boarding.

Any impact should be on the airline management, who through their apparent failure to provide an adequate SOP to deal with such a situation, inculcated in it's staff the belief that the actions taken were the 'right way to go'.

Nobody is blaming the company employees, this is a management issue.

Dr.Dao is going to be a rich man very soon and he deserves to be so, simply for standing up for his rights in the face of the incredibly stupid and arrogant attitudes towards paying customers which are held by corporate business.

Fair play to Dr.Dao!

Last edited by Carjockey; 14th Apr 2017 at 18:27.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:02
  #969 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ayroplain View Post
Is it only this (Republic) event or are they also infuriated by all the other disgraceful and humiliating events suffered by other UA mainline passengers on their watch?
Apparently those don't count.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:10
  #970 (permalink)  
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United pilots are infuriated by this event.
42,500 other United passengers were turned away from their flights against their wishes in the past 5 years.

Perhaps those poor pilots will have some terrible anger management issues by now.

Is there any chance they could claim some compensation, for being forced to endure such scenes?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:11
  #971 (permalink)  
 
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42,500 other United passengers were turned away from their flights against their wishes in the past 5 years.

Perhaps those poor pilots will have some terrible anger management issues by now.

Is there any chance they could claim some compensation, for being forced to endure such scenes?
A solution is to designate the flight decks as "safe spaces."

Last edited by HEMS driver; 14th Apr 2017 at 18:41.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:22
  #972 (permalink)  
 
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"For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew, the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger." (from United ALPA MEC release). Surely it's fortunate that the armed Chicago Police Dept WEREN'T called!
It would benefit the pilots and flight attendants if the squalid haggling over compensation for bumping were strictly done on the land side of the check-in NOT on the aircraft....more civilised perhaps if the last 5 or10% of economy seats were sold as unguaranteed standby seats to cater for connecting passengers or emergency staff movements
Now Dr Dao and his lawyer have to weigh-up compensation bids from the airline orders of magnitude bigger $10m... $100m? against going to court
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:31
  #973 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A30yoyo View Post
"For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew, the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger." (from United ALPA MEC release).
Drivel - United had no business calling law enforcement to a commercial dispute. They did and the whole world knows what happened.

You are in a monumental hole stop digging for god's sake
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:38
  #974 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by _Phoenix View Post
Very true indeed. Bullying United should stop ,enough is enough. This isolated incident should not impact the 82k workers and their families.
There comes a point where a company has had its day. News of the Screws anyone?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:40
  #975 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by birmingham View Post
Drivel - United had no business calling law enforcement to a commercial dispute. They did and the whole world knows what happened.

You are in a monumental hole stop digging for god's sake
Exactly. Why did UAL (not Frontier) call security to the cabin in the first place, to deliver tea and biscuits?

ALPA should have STFU. Let Munoz take the hits.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:46
  #976 (permalink)  
 
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I dont think we should underestimate the complexities of the legal issues at play here.

I would imagine there could be several lawsuits involving the airline (who the pax likely had the contract with), the other airline operator and the city or police.

Each may want to sue the other, and thats before we get to the plaintiff who was subjected to the removal.

From watching the live steam of the lawyers, it seemed their focus was the Dr's serious injuries. Although there did seem to be interest in 'changing the industry' as a result of this incident. Its worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

Last edited by newfoundglory; 14th Apr 2017 at 19:08.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:48
  #977 (permalink)  
 
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It seems the response by the UA unions crystallizes their complete disconnect from reality.
A UA passenger was assaulted and badly injured for the perceived convenience of UAL.
Rather than attempt to look at how this happened, they deflect: for reasons unknown to us.
This is a dangerously pathetic performance. They need to recognize that their industry has been getting away with murder and that this will probably now change.

The union would be smarter to seize this opportunity to insist that their members be allowed to apply common sense, for the good of the entire enterprise. Else they risk going down with the ship, because this system will get adjusted somehow.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 18:53
  #978 (permalink)  
 
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"..getting away with murder.."? Hardly. Collectively, airlines barely make a profit. In the short term, nothing good ever comes from resisting force from authorities. If the doctor got up and walked off the aircraft, nothing would be heard. No harm done. His patients would have been looked after sooner or later.

In the long term, the doctor, (passenger), will benefit greatly from the lawsuit, and future passengers may benefit from legislation and/or policy changes.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 19:01
  #979 (permalink)  
 
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No question this is a UAL management problem and Munoz finally says so.

I choose to believe that a properly empowered PIC would not elect to have an unthreatening old man separated from family and forecefully physically ejected to solve an non urgent operational problem that could be solved in numerous other ways.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 19:05
  #980 (permalink)  
 
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"..old man.."? He was 69, the new 50,...and why would age be a factor? Oh, wait a minute..at his age he should have enough wisdom NOT to resist authority for fear of bodily harm..
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