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Turkish Airlines cargo 747 crashes in Kyrgyzstan

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Turkish Airlines cargo 747 crashes in Kyrgyzstan

Old 3rd Feb 2017, 16:47
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
From the report, it appears that the aircraft never touched down on the runway at all, it was 900 meters past the far end of runway 26 before it contacted the ground.
Google Translate renders that part of the report, somewhat ambiguously, as "900 meters from the far end of the runway".

That could conceivably be interpreted as either 900m before the end, or 900m beyond the end.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 16:49
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kulverstukas View Post
Official preliminary release (russian):

Release

Update
Interesting to note, that these documents do not come off any official Russian government site and definitely not from the MAK/IAC website (although the PDFs claim to be released by the MAK/IAC), but an aviation forum in Russia. The documents also do not use any of the official letterheads. Official? I am anything but sure.

Edited later:

I found documents released by Rosaviatsia (CAA), not the MAK/IAC as identified in the linked PDFs. The release by Rosaviatsia, using the official letter head etc., is word by word identical to what has been created by somebody as MAK/IAC release ... So the origin of this report is Rosaviatsia.

Last edited by Austrian Simon; 3rd Feb 2017 at 17:22.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 17:25
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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It just looks like a classic false g/s all the way down to me or am I over simplifying ?
This doesn't fit a "classic" false g/s. A classic false g/s would still descend to the correct runway threshold, just at a (much) steeper angle. A back course g/s was suggested earlier in the thread but that explanation doesn't seem to fit the descent profile either.

That could conceivably be interpreted as either 900m before the end, or 900m beyond the end.
Well the translation if correct also included "the plane flew over the entire runway" which suggests the impact point was 900m beyond the runway end.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 17:26
  #224 (permalink)  
thf
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Google Translate renders that part of the report, somewhat ambiguously, as "900 meters from the far end of the runway".

That could conceivably be interpreted as either 900m before the end, or 900m beyond the end.
The Russian version is not ambiguous: 900m beyond the end. It specifically states, that it overflew the whole runway.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 18:19
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by thf View Post
The Russian version is not ambiguous: 900m beyond the end. It specifically states, that it overflew the whole runway.
OK, I'll bow to your linguistic ability, though I'm pretty sure that no part of "900 м от дальнего по заходу торца полосы" translates literally as "beyond".

And with a 4,200m runway, by the time you are 900m from the far end, you've already overflown almost all of it.

Doubtless the FDR will establish conclusively what happened and where.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 20:02
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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DRUK...

MAK has stated that the first point of contact with any object was the concrete airport fence. That, along with no damage to approach lights, stands, localiser antennae, etc at the 08 end of the runway, suggests there was no touchdown on the runway surface.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 20:20
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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My Russian is a bit rusty but I would say that "900 м от дальнего по заходу торца полосы" means something like 900m from the western threshold of the runway.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 20:22
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by grizzled View Post
MAK has stated that the first point of contact with any object was the concrete airport fence.
No, it hasn't.

The MAK report makes a distinction between the initial contact with the ground and the collision with the fence (see post #217): "After touch down, the aircraft collided with a concrete fence"

That, along with no damage to approach lights, stands, localiser antennae, etc at the 08 end of the runway, suggests there was no touchdown on the runway surface.
Not necessarily. It doesn't rule out a prior touchdown before becoming airborne again.

As I said previously, while we're waiting for the report and FDR plot everything else is simply speculation based on a relatively few published facts to date.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 20:36
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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My Cargo a subsidiary of HNA Group

The B744 was registered in Turkey, and under the AOC of Turkish DGCA.
Strangely enough there is no mention of the ownership of this operation? This for the purposes of insurance and responsibility for damages caused on the ground as per the Rome convention, and liabilities from the company.

I am not up to date on the number of aircraft this particular operation had, but as of year 2014 they only had two B744's based in SAW cargo hangar, a former cargo operation by Orex and Star Havayollari, pretty much a gangster operation by CEO's like Kani Kurtulus whom faded away from the industry back in year 2009 despite several attempts to re-start other similar operations in the Bakkans, Georgia and Rumania.

Ownership of this operation is based in Hainan-Island, P.R.C, which comprises several airlines in China, and some abroad as the case was with MyCargo B744 operation based in Turkey.

Several statements on this rumor network dislike the use of specific names of the crew involved in the accident.
This practice is common in China, a public execution of whom to blame for the accident; There is however no mention of the board of directors and CEO of the HNA group and their action as a result of this accident??

These information above is offered without prejudice to help the families of the crew and the relatives of the people affected by this accident, so that they can consider litigation to compensate the losses from this monopoly of HNA group based in Hainan island, China, P.R.C
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 20:53
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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DRUK

Chill mate. I said "suggests that..."

You seem to take these discussions personally and differing points of view as affronts to your own view. Yet, ironically, you mention that everything is speculation while we wait for the official facts from the investigation. So we are all speculating, including you.

Sent with smiles and an open mind
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 21:33
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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dignified:

According to the document labelled 'release' posted by Kulverstukas, the owners are shown as LCI Freighters One in Ireland.

https://www.lciaviation.com/fixed-wi...eing-747-400f/
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 21:39
  #232 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by grizzled View Post
So we are all speculating, including you.
Indeed we are.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 21:58
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Austrian Simon View Post
Interesting to note, that these documents do not come off any official Russian government site and definitely not from the MAK/IAC website (although the PDFs claim to be released by the MAK/IAC), but an aviation forum in Russia. The documents also do not use any of the official letterheads. Official? I am anything but sure.

Edited later:

I found documents released by Rosaviatsia (CAA), not the MAK/IAC as identified in the linked PDFs. The release by Rosaviatsia, using the official letter head etc., is word by word identical to what has been created by somebody as MAK/IAC release ... So the origin of this report is Rosaviatsia.
I newer pointed out it's MAK release, just "official". I'm not familiar with western practice of informing pilots about possible dangers before official report is published, but here Rosavia (kind of Ministry of Aviation) usually circulates such letters (in form of telegrams previously) with recommendations based on preliminary findings of investigations.

So first part is just copy of "Known facts" from MAK report and second part can lead us to possible findings of investigation committee.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 22:08
  #234 (permalink)  
 
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As I can make it into english:

Plane overflew whole length of runway and landed on the ground 900 m after the end or RWY26 (beginning of RWY8). After landing, plane crashed into concrete fence of the airport and through it rolled into the village, located 1000m from the RWY.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 22:15
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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And from interview with the Head of Investigation Committee:

Last communication with the Tower was weather check.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 22:28
  #236 (permalink)  
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I think avherald.com has the translation correct ("On Feb 3rd ..."): Crash: MyCargo B744 at Bishkek on Jan 16th 2017, impacted terrain on go around
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 22:30
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kulverstukas View Post
After landing, plane crashed into concrete fence of the airport and through it rolled into the village, located 1000m from the RWY.
What do you think might account for the undamaged houses in the photo you posted, between the airport and the destroyed ones ?
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 22:38
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know and it doesn't fit with drafts of damage on the village map (official, issued by village administration) I posted earlier and there is visible right shift in the damage area relative to rwy.

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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 23:21
  #239 (permalink)  
 
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Plane overflew whole length of runway and landed on the ground 900 m after the end or RWY26
Would it be possible for this accident aircraft to set up an approach to the wrong end of the runway by keying in the wrong data? It wouldn't be a full ILS of course, but might use a combination of GPS and localizer data.
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Old 4th Feb 2017, 00:21
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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Points of contact with the ground.

Just in case anybody is reading too much into the pictures and unofficial words.

The attitude of the plane makes a difference (pitch and roll) as well as the dangling parts of the plane like gear and engines. Even in the Korean event in Guam it was clear that the first contact was way upstream from where the wreckage sat in the ravine

I'm not content to conclude anything based on what's reported to-date. However I will follow with interest any speculation from herein regarding what might make a difference in the causal chain.
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