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Puerto Carreno cargo 722 crash

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Puerto Carreno cargo 722 crash

Old 15th May 2017, 21:16
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Certainly not familiar with that flap 30 procedure.
I understand the noise abatement aspect but what take-off performance effect does it have versus more "traditional" settings?
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Old 15th May 2017, 21:50
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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flaps 30 ?

Read page 4 of th preliminary report:




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Old 15th May 2017, 21:55
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Copick Voice Recorder
Oops, hope the content of the report is more accurate.

Don't speak Spanish. Anyone wants to translate?
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Old 15th May 2017, 22:43
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Certainly not familiar with that flap 30 procedure.
I understand the noise abatement aspect but what take-off performance effect does it have versus more "traditional" settings?
Neither am I. Flaps 15 was normal for takeoff. Flaps 5 at high-altitude, long runway airports such as KDEN and ABQ. Flaps 25 for short runway, low-altitude airports such as KLGA.

In fact, after the KSLC crash (1965?) my company blocked out Flaps 40. So, Flaps 30 became our landing flap setting. Some carriers didn't block them, but made Flaps 30 the normal landing flap.
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Old 15th May 2017, 23:44
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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For gearlever
Condensed translation of key points

First paragraph, according to CVR FDR during taxi T O check list done, radio call for local traffic done as airport was uncontrolled at the time
Second paragraph, aircraft backtracked for take off on Ray 25, after 180 turn aircraft was NOT aligned with runway, this was corrected during T O roll.
Third paragraph, aircraft was configured with 30 degree flaps ( as per note 7 ) with 6.5 units of elevator, crew did not consult latest METAR that was available at airport office.
Note 7 refers to the special modification for flap 30 T O
hope this helps
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Old 16th May 2017, 06:19
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Originally Posted by aterpster
In fact, after the KSLC crash (1965?) my company blocked out Flaps 40. So, Flaps 30 became our landing flap setting. Some carriers didn't block them, but made Flaps 30 the normal landing flap.
A bit of thread drift here but not sure that flap 40 was in any way relevant to that accident ?
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Old 16th May 2017, 08:28
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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The supplemental type certificate (ST 00507 SE) ist still puzzling me.
Where does it say Flaps 30 deg?
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Old 16th May 2017, 08:46
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It doesn't. Probably because they aren't set to 30.

The patent associated with the Quiet Wing mod specifies that the inboard flaps are re-rigged 7 down and the outers 3.5 (so around 5 down on average) so that the effective flap angle with 25 set is approximately 30.

But I don't think the drooped angles are placarded as such, so it will still be nominally 25.
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Old 16th May 2017, 09:12
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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gearlever
Post # 143, 3rd paragraph next to red arrow states : based on CVR and FDR it was found that HK 4544 was configured for take off with 30 degrees of flaps and 6.5 units of elevator then it goes to state re METAR as previously translated.
Next to 30 degrees there is the note to refer to note seven below next to second red arrow.
It clearly states "HK4544 was configured with flap 30 for the take off"
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Old 16th May 2017, 09:29
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Wouldn't the T/O warning horn sound with lever in F30 ?

I'm here more with DaveReidUK, lever in 25 detent !
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:35
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Some Q kits reset the T/O warning horn mice (i.e. the thing that makes the horn go off).
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Old 16th May 2017, 14:38
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
A bit of thread drift here but not sure that flap 40 was in any way relevant to that accident ?
My recollection was that the primary cause was a steep, idle-power descent. The conclusion, as I recall it, was that a better chance of recovery would have been possible with Flaps 30. In any case, it was the accident that caused the industry to shift to Flaps 30 as the preferred landing flap setting. And, as I said previously, my airline blocked out Flaps 40 as a result of that accident.

Back on thread: I have never heard of Flaps 30 being an option for takeoff.
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Old 16th May 2017, 15:41
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Originally Posted by aterpster View Post
Back on thread: I have never heard of Flaps 30 being an option for takeoff.
Me too. Over ten years on 727, all seats. But I must admit only until 1992.
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Old 16th May 2017, 16:15
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Spanglish

Regarding an earlier post, "copick" is Spanglish. Spanish does not have a real equivalent word for "cockpit". Officially, it is "cabina" or "cabina de piloto". Here in Cuba del Norte (Northern Cuba aka Miami), I have even heard it called cancha (kinda like court, as in tennis court). So, I don't think the use of Spanglish necessarily diminishes the accuracy of the remainder of the report.

Just my 2 centavos, forgive me
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Old 16th May 2017, 23:51
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Originally Posted by VNAV PATH View Post
Read page 4 of th preliminary report:




According to the information provided by the flight recorders Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Flight Data Recorder (FDR), It was evidenced that the aircraft Backtracked towards runway 25 Threshold And simultaneously the crew performed the respective before takeoff checklists; as well as the self-announcement calls (blind) to the aircraft on the area, having in mind that the airport at the time was Uncontrolled.
Once the backtrack was completed , it was evidenced that the aircraft performed a 180 degree turn resulting in a heading different from runway heading, which was later corrected during the takeoff run.
Based on CVR and FDR, was identified that HK-4544 was set for a takeoff configuration of 30 degrees of flaps and 6 (according to modification (STC)- ST00507SE “Flap and aileron droop modification- Quiet wing Corporation) units of stabilizer trim (up), also was found that the crew was unaware of the wind direction and intensity information. The closest takeoff time METAR was: 2200Z 01008KT 9999 FEW020 SCT200 32/31 A//// (This info was available on the IDEAM (Colombia’s meteorological department) office at the airport ).

Last edited by dustindq; 17th May 2017 at 02:44. Reason: correcting article missing on unaware OF wind
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Old 17th May 2017, 01:46
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I guess we will wonder forever whether they would have made it with Flaps 25.

Then again, with the mods stated, it becomes more problematic.
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Old 21st May 2017, 21:06
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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KRE Designador IATA...Serious!!????
Such a credible report for sure, when one cant even know that 3 letter are ICAO and 2 are Iata...
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:56
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Originally Posted by JanetFlight View Post
KRE Designador IATA...Serious!!????
Such a credible report for sure, when one cant even know that 3 letter are ICAO and 2 are Iata...
ICAO: NZAA
IATA: AKL
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Old 22nd May 2017, 06:32
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I believe janetflight is referring to the AIRLINE or carrier code, not the airport code.

As in NZ (IATA) or ANZ (ICAO) for Air New Zealand.

AeroSucre S.A. (air carrier) - IATA: 6N, ICAO: KRE
Puerto Carreno (airport) - IATA: PCR, ICAO: SKPC (But not the codes in question)

However, one typo in a footnote is not exactly "definitive" of the quality of the report. Good Lord!
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