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EASA after Brexit, a new worldwide ICAO dynamic ?

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EASA after Brexit, a new worldwide ICAO dynamic ?

Old 25th Jun 2016, 10:36
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Originally Posted by tubby linton
Goodbye to Eu261 and the parasite law firms that make a living from it.
Tubby, I think it may not be so simple. EU 261 applies to any passenger "Departing from a Member State" so unless I've got it wrong, any return journey from the EU to the UK will qualify. Additionally, I believe Switzerland applies EU261, despite being outside the EU. I'll wager we'll keep it.

According to Wiki, Gibraltar is about the only place exempt.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 10:53
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UK019, oh well, it would have been nice if it had gone. One of the more idiotic pieces of EU legislation where you can actually be in profit for a flight being late.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 11:00
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Totally agree Tubby. It staggers me that a Jumbo full of passengers being delayed for a valid safety reason (tech) can collect a quarter of a million or more because the airline won't risk their lives.

I was a "remain" voter, by the way - but that particular EU rule is, in my opinion, outrageous.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 11:24
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I have an EASA licence but the likelihood of being offered employment by any reputable european airline has always been nil so the freedom of employment in the EU has meant nothing for me.. A return to a CAA licence will therefore make no difference. I am just hoping that we can dump EASA FTL as soon as possible.

Last edited by tubby linton; 25th Jun 2016 at 12:21.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 12:04
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Back to EFTA!!!
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 16:31
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Originally Posted by UK019
Tubby, I think it may not be so simple. EU 261 applies to any passenger "Departing from a Member State" so unless I've got it wrong, any return journey from the EU to the UK will qualify. Additionally, I believe Switzerland applies EU261, despite being outside the EU. I'll wager we'll keep it.

According to Wiki, Gibraltar is about the only place exempt.
I thought that the EU261 applies to flights to the EU as well.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 19:06
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Yes, provided you are travelling on an airline based in an EU member state.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 19:08
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Before the licence comes the medical. Brexit means no more EASA medicals and less bureaucracy for our AME`s and take down the sign "that way to the Republic. " I wonder what the effect will be on flight training here, there and everywhere.
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 22:02
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Membership of EASA is independent of membership of the EU.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/easa-and-...a_relationship[0]=field_easa_country_mbmo_target_id

Originally Posted by grizzled
With respect... You`ve posted that same statement on two threads -- even after being corrected the first time. EASA is an AGENCY of the EU. Just like ICAO is an AGENCY of the United Nations.
rttest
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 22:14
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Originally Posted by JDJ
Membership of EASA is independent of membership of the EU.
Correct.

Iceland and Switzerland, for example, are EASA Member States.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 00:51
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You do not have to be an EU member to be in EASA, it has been correctly pointed out that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are all EASA members. But it is also true that EASA is an agency of the European Union.

EUROPA - Agencies of the European Union - EASA
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 07:11
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Originally Posted by Aluminium shuffler

UK adherence to EU dictat was enforced far more rigorously and unfairly than anyone else's, so your idea that we didn't follow the rules is very, very mistaken.
Wake turbulence separation procedures in the UK are very different to ICAO/EASA standards.

EG in most of the world a 757 is a medium when following, heavy when being followed. Not so in the UK.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 14:17
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Originally Posted by ExXB
No problem for UK to stay with EASA, just like Norway or Switzerland. They just don't get a seat at the table.

You want to play in our playground? Then you play by our rules.
Flown all over the World; not a problem.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 14:27
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They are not the same, however to be in EASA one requires to be in the EU, any state can adopt EASA, the EU 'makes the rules', Brits will not like that one bit
So if the EU makes the rules then how come 60+ y/o pilots can operate in and/or /overfly most EU countries except France and Italy?

Is this much the same as Mad Cow Disease, France (not the EU) blockaded British beef transits long after EU had lifted the ban whilst France had their own Mad Cows all along?
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 18:38
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So if the EU makes the rules then how come 60+ y/o pilots can operate in and/or /overfly most EU countries except France and Italy?
That is history. Has been for quite a while. And even overflying of france was possible for a very long time, we have been doing it for more than 15 years. Scheduled flights to france were a different case though, but that has been possible for some years now as well.
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 20:43
  #36 (permalink)  
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Snoop Luxembourg EU Court

The 65 y/o limit replaced the former 60 y/o after pilots went to the EU Luxembourg Court saying there was an age discrimination. Discrimination is forbidden by Rome Treaty (EU) but really applied after the Amsterdam Treaty (EU too)... What will happen when these pilots will reach 65 ?
ICAO did forbid sum of ages greater than 120 but only a national or EU Court is able to decide if there is discrimination to be corrected. (Of course medical state must stay class I)
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 08:35
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ICAO did forbid sum of ages greater than 120 but only a national or EU Court is able to decide if there is discrimination to be corrected. (Of course medical state must stay class I)
Check out EASA FCL.065. Pilots cannot work in commercial air transport if they are 60 or older and working in a single pilot crew, which for example applies to all rescue helicopter operations here. And over 65 it is not allowed at all. That is of course an age discrimination, however it is EU law and it will be interesting to see it challenged in court. One can still work in private ops without any age limit of course.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 09:56
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Was at a presentation given by Chief Exec CAA last week (pre vote). He stated that it would be down to the Government to decide the position should we exit but he couldn't imagine them doing anything other than agreeing to carry on with EASA. He also said, as above, it would be compliance without influence.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 13:11
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Its not a question IF you exit, its a question how fast you exit out of EU. and I hope for crews that you not have to exit out of EASA, but you got what the majority wanted, and I think the best is a fast exit, for all !
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 13:12
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Don't confuse JAA and EASA. JAA was open to all, EASA is an EU agency and their regulations are based on EU laws. The core of FTL is an EU law that required consensus between the EU parliament, the commission and the council of transport ministers. EASA is allowed to detail this law with their own certification specifications and acceptable means of compliance.

Without EU membership you may comment proposed changes to the basic law but you won't have any MEPs or ministers or commissioners having a say in it. So the CAA would be no better off than Joe Pilot writing a comment (though their comment might get more attention).

Don't bet con CAP 371 coming back. If EU-FTL means savings to the airlines, they'll probably lobby for keeping it, stating they can't bear the dual burden of a return to CAP 371 and losses caused by reduced market access, a weakened pound, whatever.
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