American Eagle CRJ900 scrapes wing on landing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: In a Pineapple Under the Sea
Age: 61
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
American Eagle CRJ900 scrapes wing on landing
An American Eagle CRJ900 (operated by Mesa) scraped its wing while landing at McAllen International on Sept 29.
Regional Jet Scrapes Wing on Runway During Texas Landing | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth
Photo from Juan De La Garza twitter feed: https://twitter.com/JuanDeLaGarza1
Regional Jet Scrapes Wing on Runway During Texas Landing | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth
Photo from Juan De La Garza twitter feed: https://twitter.com/JuanDeLaGarza1
Last edited by WillFlyForCheese; 30th Sep 2015 at 14:39. Reason: photo credits
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
From another forum, FO's landing, she had the 'dreaded 8 knot crosswind'. 
Sounds pretty routine on the LiveAtc tape for Air Shuttle 5786 at about 1645Z.
Great photo Juan!
Usual disclaimers (but for the grace of God etc.), hope the damage is only cosmetic.
Sounds pretty routine on the LiveAtc tape for Air Shuttle 5786 at about 1645Z.
Great photo Juan!
Usual disclaimers (but for the grace of God etc.), hope the damage is only cosmetic.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brussels
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From another forum, FO's landing, she had the 'dreaded 8 knot crosswind'.
Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world. Honestly, I would give up airline flying and devote myself to this, if companies would pay the costs. But the airlines don't want to admit there is a problem, and don't want any more costs (perhaps until they find a new winglet or tail-scrape cost a few $ hundred thousand....
)ST
N4790P
silvertate
Really? Total rubbish
Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Zone of Alienation
Age: 79
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seen this before. 'Set it and forget it' is what I call it: New F/O lines it up and stops flying at around 100'. Wind change/drift not recognized and/or delayed response....overly-aggressive correction at the last second.
By-product of pilot mills and/or being taught by newly-minted CFIs who themselves don't have a firm grip on crosswind technique. Couple that with fast-moving, swept-wing jets and this is what happens.
I'm going to crush a few egos with this statement but it's true.
By-product of pilot mills and/or being taught by newly-minted CFIs who themselves don't have a firm grip on crosswind technique. Couple that with fast-moving, swept-wing jets and this is what happens.
I'm going to crush a few egos with this statement but it's true.
Last edited by FIRESYSOK; 30th Sep 2015 at 19:13.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
And before someone beats me to it, here are the secret codes, the landing was around 1645Z on runway 31:
Looks like the 8 knot crosswind may have been overstated.
KMFE 291753Z 02005KT 10SM CLR 33/21 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T03330211 10333 20239 58000
KMFE 291653Z VRB04KT 10SM CLR 31/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T03110217
KMFE 291553Z VRB03KT 10SM CLR 30/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T03000222
KMFE 291653Z VRB04KT 10SM CLR 31/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T03110217
KMFE 291553Z VRB03KT 10SM CLR 30/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T03000222
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world.
Larger aircraft are designed to make strong crosswind landings with some amount of crab. Otherwise the wing bank required to track centerline via side-slip will easily exceed the clearance geometry.
At < 8 kts however...
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world.
, and what about if it was a wake (ideal windspeed to have it linger around the runway), how do you teach that in a Cub?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Silicon Hills
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what about if it was a wake (ideal windspeed to have it linger around the runway), how do you teach that in a Cub?
Disclaimer, my first 8 "officially" logged hours were in a J-3. Wish I had one now.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: flying by night
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm with Airbubba here, "but for the grace of God". Cheers to FIRESYSOKS for editing out (something). And thanks to the manufacturers for building aircraft like tanks.
Last edited by deptrai; 1st Oct 2015 at 17:32.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
silvertate
Really? Total rubbish
Quote: Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world
Don't see how a little manual flying experience in a Cub would hurt anything...
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't see how a little manual flying experience in a Cub would hurt anything...
And assuming that it was due to flying skills because it was it an F/O ,makes it even worse.
In a 737 I hit the wake of a preceding A320 over the approach lights once. It banked 30 degrees. If you have that in the flare you're a sitting duck; you'l hit the runway as well, no matter how many hours..
Larger aircraft are designed to make strong crosswind landings with some amount of crab. Otherwise the wing bank required to track centerline via side-slip will easily exceed the clearance geometry.
Originally Posted by Mr Boeing
Crosswind landings are best achieved when the airplane longitudinal axis
is aligned with the runway centerline. Landing with a crab angle at touchdown is not recommended. The maneuver recommended for crosswind landing requires cross-controlling, using the rudder to align the airplane fuselage with the runway, and aileron input sufficient to arrest crosswind-induced drift.
Below approximately 200 feet AGL, gradually apply rudder so as to align the longitudinal axis (heading) of the airplane with the runway centerline. Control lateral drift by applying aileron into the wind. (the upwind wing will be lower), while continuing to apply opposite rudder to maintain fuselage alignment with the centerline of the runway.
is aligned with the runway centerline. Landing with a crab angle at touchdown is not recommended. The maneuver recommended for crosswind landing requires cross-controlling, using the rudder to align the airplane fuselage with the runway, and aileron input sufficient to arrest crosswind-induced drift.
Below approximately 200 feet AGL, gradually apply rudder so as to align the longitudinal axis (heading) of the airplane with the runway centerline. Control lateral drift by applying aileron into the wind. (the upwind wing will be lower), while continuing to apply opposite rudder to maintain fuselage alignment with the centerline of the runway.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting.
737NG FCTM has this wording:
787 FCTM:
With regards to the "other company", Airbus notes:
I don't know about the CRJ900 specifically but a lot of bizjets and regionals have very small bank angle margin at landing attitude and must use some crab on strong crosswinds.
While apparently there may be exceptions, in general I agree with FSF:
737NG FCTM has this wording:
*** Sideslip only (zero crab) landings are not recommended with crosswind components in excess of 17 knots at flap 15, 20 knots at flaps 30, or 23 knots at flaps 40. This recommendation ensures adequate ground clearance and is based on maintaining adequate control margin.
If the crew elects to fly the sideslip to touchdown, it may be necessary to add a crab during strong crosswinds. (See the landing crosswind guidelines table, this chapter). Main gear touchdown is made with the upwind wing low and crab angle applied.
With higher crosswind (typically above 15 kt to 20 kt crosswind component), a safe crosswind landing requires:
- A crabbed-approach, and
- A partial decrab prior to touchdown, using a combination of bank angle and crab angle (achieved by applying cross-controls)
While apparently there may be exceptions, in general I agree with FSF:
With a strong crosswind (typically above a 15-knot to 20-knot crosswind component), a safe crosswind landing requires a crabbed approach and a partial decrab prior to touchdown.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
News coverage shows that the picture with the puff of smoke is not the only picture available. It looks like there is at least one picture before and at least one after the one that has a puff of smoke. There may be more, both before and after available if someone contacts the photographer.
Pitch up in the smoke picture looks excessive to me. Perhaps the right wing stalled, followed by the left wing resulting in a hard landing.
Someone needs to contact the photographer for any other pictures he has available
Pitch up in the smoke picture looks excessive to me. Perhaps the right wing stalled, followed by the left wing resulting in a hard landing.
Someone needs to contact the photographer for any other pictures he has available
