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American Eagle CRJ900 scrapes wing on landing
An American Eagle CRJ900 (operated by Mesa) scraped its wing while landing at McAllen International on Sept 29.
Regional Jet Scrapes Wing on Runway During Texas Landing | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQGv167UcAA48s7.png:large Photo from Juan De La Garza twitter feed: https://twitter.com/JuanDeLaGarza1 |
From another forum, FO's landing, she had the 'dreaded 8 knot crosswind'. :eek:
Sounds pretty routine on the LiveAtc tape for Air Shuttle 5786 at about 1645Z. Great photo Juan! :ok: Usual disclaimers (but for the grace of God etc.), hope the damage is only cosmetic. |
I know, perspective, foreshortening, crown of the runway. . . But it really looks like they are lined up on the far edge of the runway.
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From another forum, FO's landing, she had the 'dreaded 8 knot crosswind'. Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world. Honestly, I would give up airline flying and devote myself to this, if companies would pay the costs. But the airlines don't want to admit there is a problem, and don't want any more costs (perhaps until they find a new winglet or tail-scrape cost a few $ hundred thousand.... :ugh: ) ST |
Better idea... Airlines should encourage more manual flight when conditions permit.
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silvertate
Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world |
No question, the best "sticks" I ever had the pleasure to fly with were the pilots who cut their teeth on a J-3.
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Seen this before. 'Set it and forget it' is what I call it: New F/O lines it up and stops flying at around 100'. Wind change/drift not recognized and/or delayed response....overly-aggressive correction at the last second.
By-product of pilot mills and/or being taught by newly-minted CFIs who themselves don't have a firm grip on crosswind technique. Couple that with fast-moving, swept-wing jets and this is what happens. I'm going to crush a few egos with this statement but it's true. |
And before someone beats me to it, here are the secret codes, the landing was around 1645Z on runway 31:
KMFE 291753Z 02005KT 10SM CLR 33/21 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T03330211 10333 20239 58000 KMFE 291653Z VRB04KT 10SM CLR 31/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T03110217 KMFE 291553Z VRB03KT 10SM CLR 30/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T03000222 |
Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world. Larger aircraft are designed to make strong crosswind landings with some amount of crab. Otherwise the wing bank required to track centerline via side-slip will easily exceed the clearance geometry. At < 8 kts however... |
Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world. |
what about if it was a wake (ideal windspeed to have it linger around the runway), how do you teach that in a Cub? Disclaimer, my first 8 "officially" logged hours were in a J-3. Wish I had one now. |
I'm with Airbubba here, "but for the grace of God". Cheers to FIRESYSOKS for editing out (something). And thanks to the manufacturers for building aircraft like tanks.
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silvertate Quote: Been saying this for years, but if you give me 10 hours with each f/o in a Piper-cub, it would do more for safety than all the sims in the world Don't see how a little manual flying experience in a Cub would hurt anything... |
But don't you know that the aeroplane lands smoother if one wheel is put down first! :rolleyes:
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Don't see how a little manual flying experience in a Cub would hurt anything... And assuming that it was due to flying skills because it was it an F/O ,makes it even worse. In a 737 I hit the wake of a preceding A320 over the approach lights once. It banked 30 degrees. If you have that in the flare you're a sitting duck; you'l hit the runway as well, no matter how many hours.. |
Larger aircraft are designed to make strong crosswind landings with some amount of crab. Otherwise the wing bank required to track centerline via side-slip will easily exceed the clearance geometry.
Originally Posted by Mr Boeing
Crosswind landings are best achieved when the airplane longitudinal axis
is aligned with the runway centerline. Landing with a crab angle at touchdown is not recommended. The maneuver recommended for crosswind landing requires cross-controlling, using the rudder to align the airplane fuselage with the runway, and aileron input sufficient to arrest crosswind-induced drift. Below approximately 200 feet AGL, gradually apply rudder so as to align the longitudinal axis (heading) of the airplane with the runway centerline. Control lateral drift by applying aileron into the wind. (the upwind wing will be lower), while continuing to apply opposite rudder to maintain fuselage alignment with the centerline of the runway. |
Interesting.
737NG FCTM has this wording: *** Sideslip only (zero crab) landings are not recommended with crosswind components in excess of 17 knots at flap 15, 20 knots at flaps 30, or 23 knots at flaps 40. This recommendation ensures adequate ground clearance and is based on maintaining adequate control margin. If the crew elects to fly the sideslip to touchdown, it may be necessary to add a crab during strong crosswinds. (See the landing crosswind guidelines table, this chapter). Main gear touchdown is made with the upwind wing low and crab angle applied. With higher crosswind (typically above 15 kt to 20 kt crosswind component), a safe crosswind landing requires:
While apparently there may be exceptions, in general I agree with FSF: With a strong crosswind (typically above a 15-knot to 20-knot crosswind component), a safe crosswind landing requires a crabbed approach and a partial decrab prior to touchdown. |
News coverage shows that the picture with the puff of smoke is not the only picture available. It looks like there is at least one picture before and at least one after the one that has a puff of smoke. There may be more, both before and after available if someone contacts the photographer.
Pitch up in the smoke picture looks excessive to me. Perhaps the right wing stalled, followed by the left wing resulting in a hard landing. Someone needs to contact the photographer for any other pictures he has available |
MESA, contracted by legacy airlines to do their regional routes at rock bottom prices. Pilots living in caravans and on food stamps, what do you expect ?
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