Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Missing Indonesian Aircraft

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Missing Indonesian Aircraft

Old 30th Dec 2017, 23:46
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From the Report

Two kinds of explanation could be considered:

1)....

2)....The wreckage was found at elevation approximately 8,300 feet, higher than the 8,000 feet MSA published, which they may have believed they were safe.
One would hope to believe you were safe above the published MSA.

It appears you cannot rely on the published MSA.
Wombaticus is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2017, 02:22
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 57
Posts: 216
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Thatís a very valid point ! Wombat. Sort of makes the the other causes superficial.
Fluke is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2017, 11:17
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,780
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flash8
Not exactly recommended....
I don't know about the type in question, or at the accident location, but on other types I have flown in mountainous territory EGPWS got triggered even when accurately flying a published approach due to terrain ahead before intercepting the loc, or else terrain directly ahead on the go-around. I remember this being the case at Berne, Sion and Chambery. Where we knew that EGPWS would be triggered we (after a careful briefing) also pulled the CB because there being no cockpit door it could clearly be heard by pax.

I am not saying this is a recommended practise, but we considered the risk of having a panicking passenger bursting into the cockpit greater than the risk of a true alarm on approaches that we knew well and had flown recently.
Trim Stab is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2017, 11:47
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wombaticus
From the Report

One would hope to believe you were safe above the published MSA.

It appears you cannot rely on the published MSA.
Not necessarily, the 8300 is a true height while 8000 is an altitude based on whatever baro setting is used and influenced by temperature.
But then, it would need low temperatures and pressures that occur over Greenland, hardly the case here I suppose...
golfyankeesierra is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2018, 09:58
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 65
Posts: 1,804
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It looks to me from the VFR chart that the highest terrain within 25NM in that sector is over 14000ft which would mean the real MSA is over 15000ft, in other words the published MSA is completely spurious. Was the chart produced entirely by the operator?
Alex Whittingham is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2018, 16:52
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: I used to know
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The chart depicts an MSA within 20nm of the airport. The report does indicate that this is an entirely operator produced chart.
So yes a work of fiction bearing no relation to reality.
PT6Driver is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2018, 18:59
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 58
Posts: 1,904
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Trim Stab
I don't know about the type in question, or at the accident location, but on other types I have flown in mountainous territory EGPWS got triggered even when accurately flying a published approach due to terrain ahead before intercepting the loc, or else terrain directly ahead on the go-around. I remember this being the case at Berne, Sion and Chambery.
I have done quite a few landings in Sion with various aircrafts and certaiy don't remember such occurrences, although I can imagine a G/A triggering it.

What type if I may ask?
atakacs is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2018, 10:13
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Usually on top
Posts: 176
Received 16 Likes on 6 Posts
If your EGPWS triggers during a straight in ILS approach in Bern you may want to heed the warning...
physicus is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2018, 11:54
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,780
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
atakacs

This was on various C525s and C510. Quite a few years ago now so memory not that precise. But I do remember a colleague had a panicking passenger run into cockpit on an approach into Bern, so we used to pull the CB on subsequent approaches. It was something we used to do only after careful briefing, and if it was a pax we did not know. If a regular pax, we would brief them that the alarm might be triggered.
Trim Stab is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.