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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 20th Jul 2015, 08:52
  #3301 (permalink)  
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Even drugs like the smoking cessation drug Champix/Chantix are implicated with their suicidal thought effects on some users leading to actual suicide.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 08:58
  #3302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pitch Up Authority View Post

What about non European airlines flying into Europe?

Is EASA going to do anything about them?
If I recall, easa did stop some carriers that did not meet its standards.
They were not authorized to fly and land in europe.
Philippines Airlines comes to mind.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 09:03
  #3303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChissayLuke View Post
I'm glad to have provoked debate.
I stand by my oroginal comments.
And would respectfully point out that safety of the flying public has nothing to do with expecting 5 star service, or the price paid.
If you believe safety comes cheap, either you're naive or misinformed.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 15:20
  #3304 (permalink)  
 
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Passengers don't understanding airline safety at all unless they are in an allied field.

Some pilots fly terrible pairings, layover in lousy, noisy hotels and accumulate fatigue. Then, they head back to the airport marginally rested at best, and fly another lousy segment of the pairing.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 20:36
  #3305 (permalink)  
 
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I perceive the bigger danger here is not that we miss existing psychological conditions that affect pilots. Instead, my opinion (FWIW) is that increasing the pressure on pilots, and the intrusion of monitoring into private lives will drive some pilots into conditions that were NOT existing.

I agree absolutely that there needs to be a wholesale improvement in pilot support systems, and that pilots should be able to seek appropriate support and/or treatment for mental health issues. Just the same way as it is currently possible for physical health issues.

I just can't see that moving further down the road of intrusive monitoring linked to career-guilotines is going to achieve the intended result of reducing what is already a VERY rare situation.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 23:46
  #3306 (permalink)  
 
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Just more of the same

Everywhere bean counters are cutting costs and jeopardising quality to make an extra buck with exponential bonuses paid to execs with no accountability for consequences. When is $x million profit not enough to start taking risks.

Last edited by Nicolaus Silver; 20th Jul 2015 at 23:47. Reason: Grammar
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 01:06
  #3307 (permalink)  
 
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intrusive monitoring

We are seeing the same in my own field of anesthesiology and critical care. I am all for continuous quality improvement, etc. but it makes me very upset when a mid-level manager with much less education or experience that I have dissects my performance down to the microsecond including whether or not I use blue or black ink on my notes.

When performance reviews get very punitive then it fosters an uneasy atmosphere especially for a professional.
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 01:38
  #3308 (permalink)  
 
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Snoop The arrogance of psychological evaluations

As pilots we accept: black boxes, CVR, a door to keep the terrorists out, two checks every year, a line check and an annual medical.

On top of this we get bombarded with the principles of CRM where it is accepted that every decision that is made may be challenged by the other crew member.

The result of all this is that pilots "rightfully" develop an attitude to demand the same from those that judge their personality traits.

If those that are about to peal us like an onion are not familiar with our profession we will end up with the good ones being thrown out.

The first one who dares to challenge the decision made by the psch will be considered as a rebel and unfit to do the job. I do not know a single good captain that does not draw a line in the sand when needed.

The decision taken by EASA has put us under the dictatorship of the psychologist and possibly worse that of the psychiatrist. The door is wide open for abuses and there is nothing we can do about it.

And the ONLY reason why this happened is that the doctors that were aware of the condition of the German Wings pilot DID NOT inform the airline.

Just to mention a common problem. Any pilot that gets involved in a divorce will have to explain his marriage complications to a shrink just in order to keep his job!!! Madness!!!
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 02:02
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Pitch Up Authority:

Just to mention a common problem. Any pilot that gets involved in a divorce will have to explain his marriage complications to a shrink just in order to keep his job!!! Madness!!!
That is simply awful! Where are your unions?
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 15:03
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jetopa

Since this seems an isolated case because pilots have been flying for time immemorial and did not commit mass murders or even single killing. Does the case of narcissistic disturbance cause some people to just want to Kill?
I mean one wonders if this individual did this on purpose.
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 17:40
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I question the statement Since this seems an isolated case….

I think there have been as many as 4 or 5 in recent years where the investigation has come down on the side of intentional action by the pilot having been the cause of the fatal crash. Maybe around 1000 souls lost.

I do not presume to offer any comment on how to solve the issue. Just wanted to correct that statement.
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Old 10th Oct 2015, 18:39
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For Families of Germanwings Victims, Anger Burns Through Grief

Nevertheless, the families of the Haltern victims and those of more than 50 other victims are meeting on Saturday to discuss filing a lawsuit in the United States, where Mr. Lubitz was training when he was granted a leave to recover from depression. Elmar Giemulla, a German lawyer representing many families here, said he believed that in addition to additional compensation allowed under United States tort laws, a suit could help uncover more information about the extent of Lufthansa’s knowledge of Mr. Lubitz’s condition and how he could have been considered flight-worthy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/wo...gh-grief.html?
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Old 10th Oct 2015, 22:36
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Not a lot of detail in that piece on how a US suit would be heard by a US judge, unless there were American victims?
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Old 11th Oct 2015, 00:46
  #3314 (permalink)  
 
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Not a lot of detail in that piece on how a US suit would be heard by a US judge, unless there were American victims?
Yup. There were three Americans onboard.

According to the Montreal Convention, a plaintiff may choose to bring suit in any one of five different jurisdictions:
  1. The domicile of the carrier
  2. The carrier's principal place of business
  3. Where the carriage contract was made (*)
  4. At the destination, and
  5. Where the passenger has his/her "principal and permanent" residence (*)
(*) Assuming the carrier does business there either directly or indirectly through a commercial agreement (codeshare, etc)

That last jurisdiction, the so called "fifth jurisdiction", only applies when there is damage resulting from death or injury of passenger (which is obviously the case here).

Note that the citizenship of the passenger does not come into play; Only the "principal and permanent" place of residence matters.
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Old 11th Oct 2015, 14:16
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Thanks for the lesson.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 16:20
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A simpler solution.

The autopilot system having the ultimate control over the door lock - whenever pre-set deviation limits for the flight controls are exceeded, the door is unlocked. The door lock should also be designed as fail-safe - requires power to retain locked state.

These deviation limits should be set according to the flight plan/route (automated calculation of % deviation, or similar), and if they are to be over-ridden, require two valid pass-codes from the assigned crew.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 17:04
  #3317 (permalink)  
 
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Let's look at how many times a locked door has prevented entry by terrorists and others bent on ill intent since we started having these break-proof doors, versus how many times a pilot has killed everyone by locking these same doors.

Maybe it is better to do away with these doors.

Maybe the cabin crew need all be trained in martial arts and be expert at those skills, rather then just serving drinks/food as well.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 17:22
  #3318 (permalink)  

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It's been said before, but I'll say it again. TWO PEOPLE ON THE FLIGHT DECK AT ALL TIMES.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 17:38
  #3319 (permalink)  
 
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I do not understand how simply having two people there would have helped in this case.
How would a non pilot have understood what the intentions could be by the initial variations of height?
What could they have done once the realisation had settled in?
A second person in the case of incapacitation so they could call for help yes; but not in this case.
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 17:52
  #3320 (permalink)  

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Simples. Opened the door.
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