Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 2nd Apr 2015, 14:41
  #2921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Anybody looking at my computer's browsing history would show the same searches.

Searching 'cockpit door security'? Why would he need to do that as I'm sure they must cover it in Airbus 320 101 course.
londonman is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 14:47
  #2922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 5
"Searching 'cockpit door security'? Why would he need to do that as I'm sure they must cover it in Airbus 320 101 course."

That was my first thought exactly. Wouldn't he know more about it than most anything he could find on the internet?
Isotope Toast is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 14:50
  #2923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 17
As reported today, the German Justice department released information that Lubitz was searching for methods to commit suicide as well as cockpit door systems between the period of March 16th - 23rd. I'm not sure how much proof the doubters require.
GHEVY is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 14:52
  #2924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 56
Posts: 5
Yes, suicide is a possibility, but by no means the only possible cause of this tragedy.
Yes. There are other possible causes in such a case. But not in this case. The blackbox 2 has been recovered. Then you will learn:

Denial -> you are still here
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

Most of us have analyzed all data released and have accepted the hard and cold truth: suicide. And it will change the industry. And that is what Lubitz has told to his girlfriend.
ThoddyEADS is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 14:56
  #2925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
Delta flight1651 of 01/02/2015, Minneapolis to LA. The Captain was locked out of the cockpit and the F/O landed the plane. Less than two months later we have another lock out, but with disasterous results. Did the incident of Flight 1651 not prompt the need to consider emergency access to cockpit.
Therefore in view of the pre-existing USA "always minimum two crew per cockpit" rule, in the above case was it actually the FO plus an accompanying CC who became locked in the cockpit during flight?
seafire6b is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 15:03
  #2926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
Age: 73
Posts: 111
Frankly I doubt if this will cause more than a tiny blip in airline travel bookings.
The public is desperate to travel for various reasons and has soon learned to accept all sorts of mechanical and training incidents as the cost of convenience.

Did people stop flying in 747s when cargo doors blew off, did people stop flying in DC10s after a #2 motor broke up disabling all primary flying controls, have people stopped flying with Malaysian after two major losses? Did people stop flying after 9/11?
BOING is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 15:08
  #2927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 11,595
Originally Posted by seafire6b View Post
Delta flight1651 of 01/02/2015, Minneapolis to LA. The Captain was locked out of the cockpit and the F/O landed the plane. Less than two months later we have another lock out, but with disasterous results. Did the incident of Flight 1651 not prompt the need to consider emergency access to cockpit.
Therefore in view of the pre-existing USA "always minimum two crew per cockpit" rule, in the above case was it actually the FO plus an accompanying CC who became locked in the cockpit during flight?
Reportedly, yes.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 15:19
  #2928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 48
FDR found ?

It will be interesting to hear, eventually, what the FDR reveals. I keep thinking, Lubitz operated into BCN that morning. It seems his Capt saw no reason to be concerned by his mental state or actions on that sector, or on the turnround. Initial phases of the return leg also appear to have been routine. They had been working together several hours that day. If he had had any doubts as to Lubitz's mental state,or ability to operate, he surely would not have handed him control and left him alone and unsupervised on the FD.
DIA74 is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 15:31
  #2929 (permalink)  
xtp
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Maybe uncertainty and speculation will reduce now they have found the FDR.

Germanwings crash: Co-pilot Lubitz 'researched suicide' - BBC News
xtp is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 15:44
  #2930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,768
There is a very good reason why the crew inside the cockpit can override the emergency code, the event someone under duress is using it.

So, how do you stop one of the cockpit crew using this "special code" under duress??

Can't can you.

The cockpit needs to be kept safe, end of story.
ACMS is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 15:52
  #2931 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
despegue:
you want facts?

Here is one: IT IS BLOODY IMPOSSIBLE to hear breathing on a CVR unless oxygen masks are worn! Any mention aboutnhearing breating on the cvr is pure fantasy unless mr. Lubitz was wearing his mask. ( and if he was wearing it, why?!)
On modern CVRs, pilot headset microphones are HOT microphones -- they are always on (whether the PTT button is pressed or not) and are always recorded on the CVR.

Breathing can be heard on these hot channels.

On these CVRs, four channels are assigned:

Channel 1: Captain HOT microphone
Channel 2: FO HOT microphone
Channel 3. Cockpit Area Microphone (CAM)
Channel 4: Public Address

Per regulations, large turbine aircraft installed after October 1991 must use hot microphones. CVRs on older aircraft must be retrofitted to comply with the new requirements by April, 2012.
peekay4 is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 15:55
  #2932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pretty far away
Posts: 316
" What I am awaiting is the realisation that the basis for this Co-Pilot being on the aircraft was the regulator, not the airline Eventually LH will get bored of being blamed, and state who is responsible for, and issued a certificate for, his medical "fitness".


Who did employ him in the first place after a burn out during initial training ? Abinitio pilot training isn't exactly Navy Seal training and to experience a severe depressive syndrom during that time at age 22/24 isn't very promising for the future. The guy should have been sent packing. Lufthansa isn't a charity, nor is any major airline.
So, maybe the German authorities gave him a medical, but LH decided to employ him and I am sorry......but I see grounds for loss of trust, medical or not.
This job is demanding enough as it is with life throwing its load of divorces, messed up kids and God kows what....to allow someone with a mental problem at such a young age to be employed by an airline.


Everyone seems to forget that the threat is outside the cockpit, not inside for crying out loud !!
What good does it make to have a cabin crew who only gets assed every couple of years, with a big chunk of that demographic toeing he sanity line, be alone with the remaining pilot, the very one everybody wants to have his crack examined at every angle ??
Me Myself is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 16:15
  #2933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 236
We still don't know much.

Denial -> you are still here
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
Alternatively, some of us are at, "We don't have any real facts yet; we don't even know if the leaked CVR transcripts are real or not."

Most of us have analyzed all data released
Bear in mind that newspaper accounts of leaked CVR transcripts, reports of cell phone flash cards with audio recordings having been found, etc. are not necessarily valid.
Gauges and Dials is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 16:17
  #2934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NV
Age: 72
Posts: 151
All this talk of psychological testing and number of possible victims had me thinking. I had a co-worker who literally had his finger on the button. He was a member of a Missile Combat Crew in the 70s. I figured someone with the power to kill millions would have to have a bunch of psychological testing. Granted, he could not physically do it alone but with the right personality the other crew member might be convinced. I put the question to him. He said he does not recall any such testing. He needed a top secret clearance and some kind of nuclear rating. But no psychological testing.

So, which pays off more? Testing or 2 person crews? Or a mix?
IBMJunkman is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 16:22
  #2935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,045
Who did employ him in the first place after a burn out during initial training ? Abinitio pilot training isn't exactly Navy Seal training and to experience a severe depressive syndrom during that time at age 22/24 isn't very promising for the future. The guy should have been sent packing. Lufthansa isn't a charity, nor is any major airline.
So, maybe the German authorities gave him a medical, but LH decided to employ him and I am sorry......but I see grounds for loss of trust, medical or not.
This job is demanding enough as it is with life throwing its load of divorces, messed up kids and God kows what....to allow someone with a mental problem at such a young age to be employed by an airline.
As an employment prospect, I might agree.

With regards to safety & medically I do not - you are either fit, or unfit, and that is determined by whether or not you hold a medical. I know of many colleagues in my airline who have had "events" in their past - personal, medical, mental, physical - some prior joining, some after. I am sure all airlines are the same - pilots are human after all
NigelOnDraft is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 16:28
  #2936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,247
The people picking up the pieces

The aircraft smashed into the mountain at 435mph, exploding instantly and scattering aircraft and human debris over at least two hectares of precipitous rock.

Since Wednesday, the day after flight 4U9525 crashed into the southern Alps, aerial pictures have shown gendarmes picking through what looked like small pieces of litter.

The French described the painstaking task as the “travail de fourmi”, literally the work of an ant, suggesting patience and perseverance.

It was difficult to use ordinary words to describe their grim findings, words that would not cause further distress to already grief-stricken families.

Touron admitted that even for those used to dealing with death, the search had been emotionally charged. “When you have a body to examine, you know what you’re dealing with, but you become technical and get on with it. But the effect is cumulative and exhausting,” he said.

“We’ve had some people join us who are not used to working with body parts and it’s been difficult for them. We have a team of psychologists on hand, and we also make sure we all eat together and speak about what has shocked us.”
Germanwings crash: ?the overriding feeling is one of injustice,? says officer with grim task of retrieving the dead | World news | The Guardian

Thank you Colonel Touron and all those with you.
RatherBeFlying is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 16:35
  #2937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,999
As an employment prospect, I might agree.

With regards to safety & medically I do not - you are either fit, or unfit, and that is determined by whether or not you hold a medical. I know of many colleagues in my airline who have had "events" in their past - personal, medical, mental, physical - some prior joining, some after. I am sure all airlines are the same - pilots are human after all
Nigel I agree 100% with you but would further add that we do not know if what has been published so far if correct answers the question of what exact mental condition leads to someone planning a suicide but also planning to leave their name in history by carrying out an awful murder of 150 people?

By all means identify that specific mental illness and if you can identify people with the trait to wipe out a school yard of kids with a gun or down an aircraft with 150 innocent people on board then do so as they have no place in aviation.

But not a Witch hunt on responsible caring people who have gone through a life event! We still do not have a diagnosis as to what was wrong with this guy that he can do such an evil act only a broad brush ?

Touron added: “The overriding feeling among the teams is of injustice; that these people who didn’t deserve to die were killed intentionally seems so unjust. We cannot do anything for them, so we are making a very big effort for their families.”

Last edited by Pace; 2nd Apr 2015 at 17:07.
Pace is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 16:40
  #2938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: farmm intersection, our ranch
Age: 53
Posts: 210
This job is demanding enough as it is with life throwing its load of divorces, messed up kids and God kows what....to allow someone with a mental problem at such a young age to be employed by an airline.
Not to mention bankruptcies, contracts, stagnation, base closures, lost pensions, strikes, crappy schedules, circadian disruption, crappy hotels, reserve, on and on...
flyingchanges is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 17:09
  #2939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: calif/thailand
Age: 73
Posts: 9
flight engineer is more than systems operator

In 39. Years as a flight engineer before ,CRM numerous times found myself being the third man out that provided necessary insight to defuse a hostel situation between Capt & Fo
last747fe is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2015, 17:24
  #2940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: West Africa
Posts: 17
Body parts from all passengers found

The Assoc. Press is reporting today that body parts from all 150 passengers & crew have been found

Plane crash co-pilot eyed suicide methods, cockpit security | Miami Herald Miami Herald
PARIS French investigators have identified body parts from all 150 people aboard the Germanwings flight that crashed more than a week ago, a prosecutor said Thursday.
Investigators have found and studied 2,854 body parts, Marseille Prosecutor Brice Robin said.
But he said it will still take a long time for investigators to match the body parts with DNA samples from families of the victims.

I hope there will be enough tissue from the remains of the co-pilot to do a thorough toxocology analysis to determine what meds he may have been taking.

Also of interest, the same article notes that 40 cell phones have been found - most "very very damaged." I can only pray that incredible care will be exercised with these and that there will not be further (?) release of the passengers' videos to the media. I can't imagine what the families must be facing and feeling given what has already been released (assuming the video purportedly viewed by Paris Match & Bild is real.)
Kbboca is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.