I am an Army of One (merged)
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Contacted, you clearly 
have not taken the time to read this thread properly or you would have known that the initial post was not written by AA_Silverbird.
Now if you can't be bothered to read other people's contributions, why should anyone bother reading yours?
have not taken the time to read this thread properly or you would have known that the initial post was not written by AA_Silverbird.Now if you can't be bothered to read other people's contributions, why should anyone bother reading yours?
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Mr Carruthers is hardly likely to want to be the first passenger on a fully automatic flight if he has seen the film and the recorded results of the 707 flight that the Faa attempted fully automatic.
The ground operator appears to lose control of the 707 on approach in perfect weather conditions, missed the landing target test equipment point ( fuel tank rupture into pylons was the test) the aircraft was a write off as planned but the test basically an expensive failure because they could not control it and land it where they wanted.
You will observe they could not/ did not do a goaround off of this unstable and inacurrate approach either.
However you will recall the Faa does insist and require pilots to do a go around in such circumstances on a flight or sim check.
They did not do themselves what they require of the regular pilots they licence.
To my knowledge the Faa never attempted fully automatic passenger jet flight testing in an empty test aircraft ( in perfect weather) again.
Having attempted to demonstrate flight without a crew they returned to their trade of approved crew training, exam and flight testing, licence issue, airline monitoring, and then....the prosecution/ disiplinery action and licence removal of the same. They appear able to handle this role but not a no crew 707.
Having crashed the plane, wasted lots of time and money for no result other than finding fully automatic flight was difficult, they all actually all kept their jobs!
Years later the president of Airbus alluded to imminent no crew fully automatic flight.
Haveing just returned from Alicante on an Air 2000 Airbus flight 641D some of the toilets did not flush and this is a fault I observed on the Gulf Air Airbus 320 fleet many times 5 years ago!
If airbus cannot work a fix to stop nappies going down its toilet system in 5 years, Mr Carruthers no crew flight is a while away.
IMHO pilots can relax regarding fully auto passenger flights terminating their declining career status.
The ground operator appears to lose control of the 707 on approach in perfect weather conditions, missed the landing target test equipment point ( fuel tank rupture into pylons was the test) the aircraft was a write off as planned but the test basically an expensive failure because they could not control it and land it where they wanted.
You will observe they could not/ did not do a goaround off of this unstable and inacurrate approach either.
However you will recall the Faa does insist and require pilots to do a go around in such circumstances on a flight or sim check.
They did not do themselves what they require of the regular pilots they licence.
To my knowledge the Faa never attempted fully automatic passenger jet flight testing in an empty test aircraft ( in perfect weather) again.
Having attempted to demonstrate flight without a crew they returned to their trade of approved crew training, exam and flight testing, licence issue, airline monitoring, and then....the prosecution/ disiplinery action and licence removal of the same. They appear able to handle this role but not a no crew 707.
Having crashed the plane, wasted lots of time and money for no result other than finding fully automatic flight was difficult, they all actually all kept their jobs!
Years later the president of Airbus alluded to imminent no crew fully automatic flight.
Haveing just returned from Alicante on an Air 2000 Airbus flight 641D some of the toilets did not flush and this is a fault I observed on the Gulf Air Airbus 320 fleet many times 5 years ago!
If airbus cannot work a fix to stop nappies going down its toilet system in 5 years, Mr Carruthers no crew flight is a while away.
IMHO pilots can relax regarding fully auto passenger flights terminating their declining career status.
Grandpa Aerotart
I see carruthers on dunnunder having a dig about how he enjoyed flying in Oz in 89.....union buster are we curruthers?
Clearly he lives with a firm grip on both ankles.....BOHICA!!!
Chuck.
Clearly he lives with a firm grip on both ankles.....BOHICA!!!
Chuck.
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Many of us have happy memories of '89 - best detachment I ever had. We got such a welcome from the hoteliers, restauranteurs, taxi drivers, engineers and cabin crew who got a chance to fly again and earn some money (in some cases for their pilot husbands). Not a strike or union busting as I recall - they all handed in their resignation.
Big mistake.
Big mistake.
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PLEASE ........ This is ridiculous.
Have you tried approaching management with a list of your fears, insecurities and complaints. I bet you, they are much more welcoming of your input than you think.
Grow up men ............
Sorry ...... I expected more from Ppruners.
I have always found that a rotten apple in the crew can make the working environment unpleasant.
Try thinking about the good things about flying. Good money, good benefits, damn easy ............. What more can you want?
If you are really that unhappy, get another job ......... Heck ......... Change career.
There are literally thousands of wannabes that would take your place very happily, and approach flying with the right attitude for success.
Have you tried approaching management with a list of your fears, insecurities and complaints. I bet you, they are much more welcoming of your input than you think.
Grow up men ............
Sorry ...... I expected more from Ppruners.
I have always found that a rotten apple in the crew can make the working environment unpleasant.
Try thinking about the good things about flying. Good money, good benefits, damn easy ............. What more can you want?
If you are really that unhappy, get another job ......... Heck ......... Change career.
There are literally thousands of wannabes that would take your place very happily, and approach flying with the right attitude for success.
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Yeh Oz in 89 was great fun, nice place. Didn't have to cross any picket lines as I recall and yes the locals were very happy to see us. No sympathy as far as I could see for the over paid, over privileged Lemmings of the union. Scanscanscan Id stay in the back if were you and worry about the toilets.
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WOW,
Sitting in my hotel room, I was told of this thread by a friend and decided to take a look. This has totally degenerated to a new low!
I have been involved in the non-sched sector for 16 years now, both PAX and cargo,so that is my root thinking.
Most Pilots are fairly intelligent folks, some with a formal education and some with a blue collar background of baggage handleing,fueling, maintenence and so forth. Now, when we have the knowledge and background and basic skills of the management in our various companies, we tend to be able to see many problems and have solutions some of the time. Now, lets take a short side step for a sec and and ask what we do as pilots when we have a problem in the cockpit? We use our intelligence and knowledge to solve these problems, try to keep the ego's out of the equation,and hopefullycome to a conclusion with some CRM thrown in. Back to the main line now! If management and the FAA/CAA mandate we use CRM in the cockpit, why is it not employed in their day to day problem solving and attitudes towards employees. When we as crewmembers see blatent waste of money, and I mean a LOT of money, and then the management folks have the gall to tell us they can't afford to pay us more, frustration just does not quite describe the feelings that run through all of us.
Unfortuneatley, I have never been on the gravy train anywhere,(but would like to find one just for a month or two) and when we see the thousands of dollars that are wasted every month, we sit and say " gee, I'd like to have some of that"
There are some very well paid pilots out there who wouldn't necessarily appreciate a few extra hundred bucks a month, but us non schedders sure would like to have it and when we see the amount of waste that prevails, it just drives us crazy!!!
We all work for ourselves when you get down to the bottom line, and if you work for a company, cooperation with everyone sure would help the bottom line and the bean counters to the floor sweepers would enjoy the benefits.
Maybe I should go back to the pool and get some more sun?,, maybe thats what started this rant in the first place! HELP!!!
Sitting in my hotel room, I was told of this thread by a friend and decided to take a look. This has totally degenerated to a new low!
I have been involved in the non-sched sector for 16 years now, both PAX and cargo,so that is my root thinking.
Most Pilots are fairly intelligent folks, some with a formal education and some with a blue collar background of baggage handleing,fueling, maintenence and so forth. Now, when we have the knowledge and background and basic skills of the management in our various companies, we tend to be able to see many problems and have solutions some of the time. Now, lets take a short side step for a sec and and ask what we do as pilots when we have a problem in the cockpit? We use our intelligence and knowledge to solve these problems, try to keep the ego's out of the equation,and hopefullycome to a conclusion with some CRM thrown in. Back to the main line now! If management and the FAA/CAA mandate we use CRM in the cockpit, why is it not employed in their day to day problem solving and attitudes towards employees. When we as crewmembers see blatent waste of money, and I mean a LOT of money, and then the management folks have the gall to tell us they can't afford to pay us more, frustration just does not quite describe the feelings that run through all of us.
Unfortuneatley, I have never been on the gravy train anywhere,(but would like to find one just for a month or two) and when we see the thousands of dollars that are wasted every month, we sit and say " gee, I'd like to have some of that"
There are some very well paid pilots out there who wouldn't necessarily appreciate a few extra hundred bucks a month, but us non schedders sure would like to have it and when we see the amount of waste that prevails, it just drives us crazy!!!
We all work for ourselves when you get down to the bottom line, and if you work for a company, cooperation with everyone sure would help the bottom line and the bean counters to the floor sweepers would enjoy the benefits.
Maybe I should go back to the pool and get some more sun?,, maybe thats what started this rant in the first place! HELP!!!
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To my mind employees are the most valuable INTANGIBLE CAPITAL ASSET of a company simply called the GOODWILL.
Now, the bean's manual says . "The GOODWILL represents the potential of a business to earn above a normal rate of return. GOODWILL arises from such factors as customer confidence, reputation for dependability efficiency and internal competencies, quality of goods"
Unfortunately in practice whenever the fire bursts trough the roof, this asset is the first one to be disposed by a caring and thoughtful management. Why? Because it's the effortless and easy way out of solving the problem whenever "the unthinkable" strikes.
But I would say to those managers "While it may be easy and comfortable to fire people, I would challenge you to publicly justify - if you can - your salaries, options, incentives, benefits, perks, etc, etc, etc " And at the end of the day try to ask your selves how much of a goodwill have you brought to the company's table.
Now, the bean's manual says . "The GOODWILL represents the potential of a business to earn above a normal rate of return. GOODWILL arises from such factors as customer confidence, reputation for dependability efficiency and internal competencies, quality of goods"
Unfortunately in practice whenever the fire bursts trough the roof, this asset is the first one to be disposed by a caring and thoughtful management. Why? Because it's the effortless and easy way out of solving the problem whenever "the unthinkable" strikes.
But I would say to those managers "While it may be easy and comfortable to fire people, I would challenge you to publicly justify - if you can - your salaries, options, incentives, benefits, perks, etc, etc, etc " And at the end of the day try to ask your selves how much of a goodwill have you brought to the company's table.
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Caruthers and like-posters are pilot-haters.
Either they are pilots who just haven't cut the mustard and are bitter in a dead-end job, watching others reap in the bigger coin, or they just aren't pilots, and are sick with jealousy.
Bit like old Bob Hawke, a card carrying failed pilot who went on to Uni, thought he meant something and joined politics, that paragon of virtuous employment.
So I guess the tried and true method of child psychology applies here whereby we just ignore the anti-pilot and he/she eventually goes away.
Having said that, it is disappointing to note the attempt at making fools of the enthusiasts who either wear or own flying paraphernalia.
So what if the dude wears a flying jacket, Ray Baun's or whatever else?
Either they are pilots who just haven't cut the mustard and are bitter in a dead-end job, watching others reap in the bigger coin, or they just aren't pilots, and are sick with jealousy.
Bit like old Bob Hawke, a card carrying failed pilot who went on to Uni, thought he meant something and joined politics, that paragon of virtuous employment.
So I guess the tried and true method of child psychology applies here whereby we just ignore the anti-pilot and he/she eventually goes away.
Having said that, it is disappointing to note the attempt at making fools of the enthusiasts who either wear or own flying paraphernalia.
So what if the dude wears a flying jacket, Ray Baun's or whatever else?
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Hung like a Seahorse - I don't see Caruthers and co as "pilot haters" just because they are anti- work to rule behaviour by aircrew.
And do try to come up with something better than " he disagrees with my opinion, so he must be a failed pilot or jealous of the profession". You may have a problem grasping this, but there are pilots who enjoy their career, don't think they're underpaid, and don't like the whingeing image they get tarred with by some of the contributors here.
And do try to come up with something better than " he disagrees with my opinion, so he must be a failed pilot or jealous of the profession". You may have a problem grasping this, but there are pilots who enjoy their career, don't think they're underpaid, and don't like the whingeing image they get tarred with by some of the contributors here.
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The passage that started this thread was accredited to a CO pilot and was originally on their forum. Carruthers, Sir Kitt et al I'm sure are fine professionals and might even be good guys. Judging others because of their feelings on industrial realtions as it pertains to them is a bit presumptuous.
Like a wise man once said; "Don't judge me until you have walked a mile in my shoes". Or something like that.
I am not a CO pilot and I suspect noone else here is either. They have their problems over there and it looks like one of the happiest pilot groups in the world isn't so happy anymore. It begs the question, why? If they are so unhappy as to want to withdraw the goodwill that helped take CO "From Worst to First" then I would imagine they have a legitimate beef. These guys have worked very hard over the last few years making Gordon Bethune look very good. I guess times have changed.
Like a wise man once said; "Don't judge me until you have walked a mile in my shoes". Or something like that.
I am not a CO pilot and I suspect noone else here is either. They have their problems over there and it looks like one of the happiest pilot groups in the world isn't so happy anymore. It begs the question, why? If they are so unhappy as to want to withdraw the goodwill that helped take CO "From Worst to First" then I would imagine they have a legitimate beef. These guys have worked very hard over the last few years making Gordon Bethune look very good. I guess times have changed.
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It's quite illuminating to go to Mr Carruthers's first post on this thread. There he says he is viewing the thread "as an outsider". Perhaps he would care to clarify this statement?
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Yes indeed, frankg, but suspect that the HKAOA has poisoned the atmosphere to such an extent that further diatribe between them and CX management is a waste of time.
But I would urge the two sides to get on with the show...because traffic is to pick-up BIG time this fall, cargo as well as pax. We have an all-out effort to be operational in short order, and the future for Asia is bright indeed.
But I would urge the two sides to get on with the show...because traffic is to pick-up BIG time this fall, cargo as well as pax. We have an all-out effort to be operational in short order, and the future for Asia is bright indeed.
Last edited by 411A; 19th Jun 2002 at 21:11.
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Well it didn't take long before a version of AAL Silverbirds post to reach our crew room. Especially now that our Ops Director has back tracked on a previous agreement to our Terms and Conditions "Not to let crewing bring forward your rostered duty start time unless you agree, otherwise you can politely decline the offer."
If this is the way our "Mis-management"are going to play it then they can expect more than "An Army of One" from Flight Crew and Cabin Crew.
If this is the way our "Mis-management"are going to play it then they can expect more than "An Army of One" from Flight Crew and Cabin Crew.
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proˇfesˇsionˇal - A skilled practitioner; an expert.
The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition
Next time your deliberately under performing ask yourself if the above definition still applies?
The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition
Next time your deliberately under performing ask yourself if the above definition still applies?
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I guess you meant the post to sound very clever Cruncher.
But what does it mean?
Are you saying you can't be a 'skilled practitioner' as a pilot and an 'expert' if you work to the company's rules but don't stick your neck out more than the book says?
But what does it mean?
Are you saying you can't be a 'skilled practitioner' as a pilot and an 'expert' if you work to the company's rules but don't stick your neck out more than the book says?