I am an Army of One (merged)
Join Date: Nov 2001
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This is fun, got you all going a treat! For pilots in the future read navigators, radio operators, flight engineers !! We will need systems analysts and operators not steely eyed hero's who usually screw up anyway. Obviously one must work towards eliminating the chief cause of accidents - pilots.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Well Cruthers[ this "steely-eyed hero" 
is about to don his "flashy belt buckle and sunglasses" 
, decide WHICH "car and molls" are going to look best seated next to me on the way to teaming up with a "22 (in fact he's 23) year old F/O, with no degree, earning (way in excess of) $50k" 
and engage the automatics as we "wine" (sic) our way from one "automated approach" to another.
Leaving YOU to sit in your dingy office
to operate and anal-yse your systems, and wonder why YOU couldn't cut it 
After all, Cruthers, it's such an easy job, any mug can do it
- except YOU.
is about to don his "flashy belt buckle and sunglasses" , decide WHICH "car and molls" are going to look best seated next to me on the way to teaming up with a "22 (in fact he's 23) year old F/O, with no degree, earning (way in excess of) $50k" and engage the automatics as we "wine" (sic) our way from one "automated approach" to another.Leaving YOU to sit in your dingy office
to operate and anal-yse your systems, and wonder why YOU couldn't cut it After all, Cruthers, it's such an easy job, any mug can do it
- except YOU.
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So why do you assume that I am not one of you but with a little vision folks? In my experience pilots are rarely selected but can achieve the goal by ammassing the required number of hours in light aeroplanes and sitting a few simple multi question test papers! Whats the big deal, I reckon at least 75% of the population could do it if they wished not .01 as earlier stated.
SkyGod
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Well, if flying was that easy, then the F/As would be doing it, and the airlines would be saving a lot of money in pilot salaries and the pax would be getting a safe and comfy ride at a cheaper price.
So, why not Carruthers?
So, why not Carruthers?
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OHMIGAWD'HE CANNOT BE SERIOUS,
Carruthers - The first rule of shovels - stop digging.
If you cant successfully automate a lawnmower, then pax airliners should be a doddle. Go back to Mars
Carruthers - The first rule of shovels - stop digging.
If you cant successfully automate a lawnmower, then pax airliners should be a doddle. Go back to Mars
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Carruthers,
I've heard rumours (probably malicious).. that you are far more likely to die in a plane crash if you're actually flying on one.
So my suggestion is to ban all forms of flying, thus removing this terrible risk.
Furthermore, to follow it up, i will be removing the stairs in my house, to remove the risk of me falling down them.
We could spend our whole lives quoting statistics.. in the good old days of piston engined airliners. accidents were much more likely due to mechanical causes... the fact that we have made our engines and airframes more reliable hasnt made pilots any less safe.....in fact IMHO opinion, pilots are probably better trained and safer than ever, there is a general culture of safety and teamwork (CRM and the like) and though of course there is the occasional bad egg your idea of removing pilots from aircraft is akin to removing engines to stop an engine failure ever happening....cause as we all know.. no glider has ever crashed due to engine failure.
I will also point out that every single aircrash that ever happened was caused by human error.. whether it be pilot error, bad design by the manufacturer, a missed fault by an engineer, bad programming on an automated flight system, incorrect training given to any of the above, poor ATC.. the list is endless. do you plan to automate everything?
how would your automatics have coped with the Sioux City DC10.. where over a hundred lives were saved by the pilots in a situation that was bordering on the impossible... or the pilot that managed to glide a heavy twinjet after a fuel miscalculation on the ground.....
LP
I've heard rumours (probably malicious).. that you are far more likely to die in a plane crash if you're actually flying on one.
So my suggestion is to ban all forms of flying, thus removing this terrible risk.
Furthermore, to follow it up, i will be removing the stairs in my house, to remove the risk of me falling down them.
We could spend our whole lives quoting statistics.. in the good old days of piston engined airliners. accidents were much more likely due to mechanical causes... the fact that we have made our engines and airframes more reliable hasnt made pilots any less safe.....in fact IMHO opinion, pilots are probably better trained and safer than ever, there is a general culture of safety and teamwork (CRM and the like) and though of course there is the occasional bad egg your idea of removing pilots from aircraft is akin to removing engines to stop an engine failure ever happening....cause as we all know.. no glider has ever crashed due to engine failure.
I will also point out that every single aircrash that ever happened was caused by human error.. whether it be pilot error, bad design by the manufacturer, a missed fault by an engineer, bad programming on an automated flight system, incorrect training given to any of the above, poor ATC.. the list is endless. do you plan to automate everything?
how would your automatics have coped with the Sioux City DC10.. where over a hundred lives were saved by the pilots in a situation that was bordering on the impossible... or the pilot that managed to glide a heavy twinjet after a fuel miscalculation on the ground.....
LP
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Gear down at 500 agl?
This was tried at LHR many years ago by TWA with a 747...and the crew was suspended for ....one year. All except the Captain...he was "retired".
Definately NOT recommended.
Yes, pilots can do a lot for the company, but they (as a collective group) are certainly not the nirvana of aviation.
This was tried at LHR many years ago by TWA with a 747...and the crew was suspended for ....one year. All except the Captain...he was "retired".
Definately NOT recommended.
Yes, pilots can do a lot for the company, but they (as a collective group) are certainly not the nirvana of aviation.
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Tower Dog - CA's do fly aeroplanes, they have to go for the full frontal labotomy first of course. Loony, good point on the Souix City, unfortunately more aircraft are lost through CFIT and cockups on re-fuelling etc. The simple fact is that you are not making a case for a pilot up front but a manager, the automatics will look after the three dimensional guidance. It will not be possible to fly future generation aircraft as the Souix City DC10 was flown i.e. manually, and pilots are not more professional these days, quite the opposite, the aircraft and systems are just making it much easier by doing it for them.
As for the company "Aircraft Operating Manuals, Parts 1 and 2", the 'Flight Ops Manual" and the "Cockpit Operating Manual" (with limitations, abnormals and supplemental procedures), not to mention the FARs and published STARs/SIDS, enroute and approach charts/taxiway diagrams (10-9... pages), guess where the airline or FAA lawyers etc start digging, with much time on their hands (and no fuel gauges to watch), after a pilot makes a major unintentional mistake, in order to keep any and all liability away from the company's back? The FOM clearly states that we must enter any known discrepency into the aircraft or cabin logbook, and either repair the item or defer it, with much of this accomplished by a certified aircraft mechanic. If the company really wants us to do take a major maintenance delay for an intermittant red flag on a radar altimeter in good weather...(you get my drift?) in Lansing, Michigan or Bozeman, Montana on a Saturday night, while passengers are boarding with an already delayed departure...even the phrase inoperative can be open to interpretation, or our dispatch reliability could fall overnight by a serious percentage.
This is not a statement as to whether pilots should always fly according to the tightest legal interpretation of those manuals, or not, but if numerous procedures and guidelines are not exactly met, it can help us all to depart and arrive on schedule, so that we always help our employer, other than plunging through unsafe weather etc?
This is not a statement as to whether pilots should always fly according to the tightest legal interpretation of those manuals, or not, but if numerous procedures and guidelines are not exactly met, it can help us all to depart and arrive on schedule, so that we always help our employer, other than plunging through unsafe weather etc?
Last edited by Ignition Override; 14th Jun 2002 at 03:59.
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I haven't posted for a long time but this is the finest pice of writing I have seen on this board for years.
Our Proffesion if you can call it that anymore has been run into the ground by bean counters its high time we as Pilots all unite against this tide.
Having worked out side the majors for all my career I have seen it go down hill its now so bad that I wouldn't recomend this career to anyone as I think it would be most irrsponsiable of me.
At this we will be paying them for flying (that has arived already just ask Ryan Air).
Lets unite and brings these people to there knees its them or us.
Well done
Our Proffesion if you can call it that anymore has been run into the ground by bean counters its high time we as Pilots all unite against this tide.
Having worked out side the majors for all my career I have seen it go down hill its now so bad that I wouldn't recomend this career to anyone as I think it would be most irrsponsiable of me.
At this we will be paying them for flying (that has arived already just ask Ryan Air).
Lets unite and brings these people to there knees its them or us.
Well done
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Caruthers,
All jobs mutate over time, if you feel that means a pilot is no longer a pilot, fair enough. I'd just call it semantics myself.
Even Wilbur and Orville didn't actually flap their arms in order to fly!
As far as automatics making it easier, well - that is true - but only if you know how to use them, when to use them, and most critically when not to use them.
Can I foresee a future where the technology is robust enough that no human monitoring is required? Maybe.
But the technology that achieves it will also do away with pretty much every other job as well, at that point (if I'm still around) I'll quite happily sit back and let our AI servants take care of things whilst I indulge in a mixture of personal development and hedonism.
Assuming they don't get too smart, figure out that they're being exploited, and then get fed up and rebel.....
Say, that sounds familiar.....
CPB
All jobs mutate over time, if you feel that means a pilot is no longer a pilot, fair enough. I'd just call it semantics myself.
Even Wilbur and Orville didn't actually flap their arms in order to fly!
As far as automatics making it easier, well - that is true - but only if you know how to use them, when to use them, and most critically when not to use them.
Can I foresee a future where the technology is robust enough that no human monitoring is required? Maybe.
But the technology that achieves it will also do away with pretty much every other job as well, at that point (if I'm still around) I'll quite happily sit back and let our AI servants take care of things whilst I indulge in a mixture of personal development and hedonism.
Assuming they don't get too smart, figure out that they're being exploited, and then get fed up and rebel.....
Say, that sounds familiar.....
CPB