TransAsia in the water?
Without (as yet) knowing the full circumstances of the accident, it's noteworthy that a 'mayday' was sent apparently before aircraft control was established, which perhaps is not the best prioritisation of actions. As an examiner I noted that some crews did this during sim checks, which prompted me to write:
in my article 'How To Do Well In The Sim'. Of course, if the situation is beyond recovery then a 'mayday' is vital to alert SAR services who might be able to rescue potential survivors.
there is absolutely no point whatsover in sending ‘Mayday’ before the aircraft is under control and following the correct flight path. ATC can help you with neither of these
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Looking at the footage of the luggage being retrieved from the tail section in the river, it appears there are a large number of extremely heavy suitcases being removed. I know they will be full of water but still ...
Psychophysiological entity
First… To those who know this airport. Do we know if one of the SIDs at this airport requires a right turn after departure?
If things were going TU at a very early stage, he may well have over-dramatized the turn away from high-ish ground. His local knowledge might also have influenced him to turn well away from huge gas/fuel bottles and go for low terrain. That would certainly indicate he feared a normal single engine profile was not going to be achieved.
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CAA Taïwan
All ATR grounded ?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0VF1TX20150205
Well .............
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/05/as...safety-record/
All ATR grounded ?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0VF1TX20150205
A grounding of Taiwan's 22 ATR aircraft was not ordered despite the incident, the second fatal crash involving a TransAsia plane in seven months.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/05/as...safety-record/
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Sorry but I do not necessaryly agree with the idea that a Mayday is not necessary asap.
It is vital that WHEN TIME ALLOWS, to warn ATC that you are in trouble.
Why?
1) they will not interfere when seing you swerve rom flightpath
2) they can reroute, hold all other traffic asap freeing your way to whatever course you must go
3) in case of you being behind the aircraft and headingmtowards terrain, they can warn and offer escape vector. ( in a radar environment)
This is of course when in a terminal area below msa etc...
Obviously,maircraft under control comes first, then memory items, but you are with two on the flightdeck.
It is vital that WHEN TIME ALLOWS, to warn ATC that you are in trouble.
Why?
1) they will not interfere when seing you swerve rom flightpath
2) they can reroute, hold all other traffic asap freeing your way to whatever course you must go
3) in case of you being behind the aircraft and headingmtowards terrain, they can warn and offer escape vector. ( in a radar environment)
This is of course when in a terminal area below msa etc...
Obviously,maircraft under control comes first, then memory items, but you are with two on the flightdeck.
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Deep Stall
Anyone get the impression that with that nose high atitude and steep angle of descent as it crosses the buildings, it may have been in an unrecoverable stall at that point?
This very same aircraft B-22816 on the morning of 19th April last year declared a mayday and then cnl in favour of a full standby prevention at Macau due to the Hidraulic System lost at Engine 1, minutes before landing.
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Looking at the Mode S transponder graph, I get a different impression of what happened.
First, as far as I know, the "speed" being sent from the transponder is IAS, not ground speed. What it appears then is that the aircraft accelerated to near 116 knots and took off. At this point the climb profile is immediately abnormal. The plane is climbing steeply, but the IAS is immediately decreasing, instead of pilots making sure the speed stays constant or accelerating. Whatever their throttle settings or whether they have 2 or 1 good engines.......clearly the pilots are not monitoring their speed (seen that so many times now) through the departure climb, and they never regained that lost situational awareness.
For a full minute after take-off, the pilots keep the same rate of climb, but the speed decays every so slowly and gradually. Finally, at ~105 knots the plane gently stalls (From reading ATR-72 specs this is about the normal stall speed when clean and heavy), and we see a immediate reduction in the rate of climb. But it is still climbing....slower, but still climbing and still recoverable. Wings lost a lot of lift, but the AoA and high engine thrust still pulling them up, but unable to maintain speed and going to be in deep trouble if don't immediately start proper stall recovery procedure.
Then in those crucial seconds the pilots do what so many other pilots have done before them. Instead of gently easing the stick pressure and letting the engines pull them back onto the curve, they pull the nose up further and now the speed REALLY drops off. Now they got no speed, and losing altitude. And that's where they hold the nose all the way down, staying below stall speed until they crash. Look at the crash video, nose was kept above the horizon......all the way down until hit the bridge.
I don't buy the "engine failure" reports. It does happen, but statistically it is so very rare on these aircraft, and besides this aircraft is capable of a single engine departure (albeit tricky). We know that instead from crashes that depressingly the single most probable cause is pilot error, particularly in this neck of the woods.
"Engine failure" is probably what they thought or yelled in the few seconds they had during a high workload environment as the only thing that made "sense". Throttles set high/full, my nose is above the horizon, but the plane dropping out of the sky......hmmm, must be engine failure! Particularly as we know a lot of these pilots have probably never experienced a real-world stall/near-stall situation before. We've seen this before on several crashes, same thing on Colgan Air, AF447 etc. In the confusion the pilots brain just can't detect the reason they are descending with throttle levers pushed up and nose up is because they are stalled. "Engine failure" is the only rationale explanation that comes in those confused moments.
First, as far as I know, the "speed" being sent from the transponder is IAS, not ground speed. What it appears then is that the aircraft accelerated to near 116 knots and took off. At this point the climb profile is immediately abnormal. The plane is climbing steeply, but the IAS is immediately decreasing, instead of pilots making sure the speed stays constant or accelerating. Whatever their throttle settings or whether they have 2 or 1 good engines.......clearly the pilots are not monitoring their speed (seen that so many times now) through the departure climb, and they never regained that lost situational awareness.
For a full minute after take-off, the pilots keep the same rate of climb, but the speed decays every so slowly and gradually. Finally, at ~105 knots the plane gently stalls (From reading ATR-72 specs this is about the normal stall speed when clean and heavy), and we see a immediate reduction in the rate of climb. But it is still climbing....slower, but still climbing and still recoverable. Wings lost a lot of lift, but the AoA and high engine thrust still pulling them up, but unable to maintain speed and going to be in deep trouble if don't immediately start proper stall recovery procedure.
Then in those crucial seconds the pilots do what so many other pilots have done before them. Instead of gently easing the stick pressure and letting the engines pull them back onto the curve, they pull the nose up further and now the speed REALLY drops off. Now they got no speed, and losing altitude. And that's where they hold the nose all the way down, staying below stall speed until they crash. Look at the crash video, nose was kept above the horizon......all the way down until hit the bridge.
I don't buy the "engine failure" reports. It does happen, but statistically it is so very rare on these aircraft, and besides this aircraft is capable of a single engine departure (albeit tricky). We know that instead from crashes that depressingly the single most probable cause is pilot error, particularly in this neck of the woods.
"Engine failure" is probably what they thought or yelled in the few seconds they had during a high workload environment as the only thing that made "sense". Throttles set high/full, my nose is above the horizon, but the plane dropping out of the sky......hmmm, must be engine failure! Particularly as we know a lot of these pilots have probably never experienced a real-world stall/near-stall situation before. We've seen this before on several crashes, same thing on Colgan Air, AF447 etc. In the confusion the pilots brain just can't detect the reason they are descending with throttle levers pushed up and nose up is because they are stalled. "Engine failure" is the only rationale explanation that comes in those confused moments.
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free image uploading
Unconfirmed seating chart. Not final.
Red = Survivors
White = Empty seats
Blue = Deceased or Missing
The flight crew are confirmed deceased sadly.
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Unconfirmed seating chart. Not final.
Nevertheless, still amazing some got out alive!
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Passenger’s statement about engine:
Huang Chin-shun, a 72-year-old man, said he helped save four lives by unclipping safety belts.
"Shortly after taking off, I felt something was not right," he told CNN affiliate ETTV. "I thought: 'something's wrong with the engine,' because I always take this flight."
"Shortly after taking off, I felt something was not right," he told CNN affiliate ETTV. "I thought: 'something's wrong with the engine,' because I always take this flight."
Pegase Driver
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A grounding of Taiwan's 22 ATR aircraf
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The passengers`s statement may be meaningful. Possible indication of engine loss after V2 and crew forced to take problem into the air. The real mystery is unless they also lost thrust on the remaining engine, then why were they unable to maintain altitude or climb.
As and when the power plants and props are recovered we might get a better idea whether or not the props were under power or not. Has anyone seen any photos of the recovered props or blades.
As and when the power plants and props are recovered we might get a better idea whether or not the props were under power or not. Has anyone seen any photos of the recovered props or blades.
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Contaminated fuel?
Is there any risk the a/c was fueled wtht water contaminated or incorrect fuel, that dergraded the trust om the left and later took out the engines one by one, when the "dirty" fuel reached the engines?
does Someone have experiance about that?
does Someone have experiance about that?
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TV footage of the wreckage being recovered appeared to show an engine with feathered prop. All supposition at this time.
http://www.bbc.com/news/31143640
Look around the 38 second point.
http://www.bbc.com/news/31143640
Look around the 38 second point.
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synchrophaser
The engine and chewed up prop looks feathered.
In the event the synchrophaser malfunctioned or was not selected off, would this lead to autofeathering, especially with ATPCS disarmed. Has there been any previous issues realting to this on type.
In the event the synchrophaser malfunctioned or was not selected off, would this lead to autofeathering, especially with ATPCS disarmed. Has there been any previous issues realting to this on type.