No wheels on my wagon !!
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Location: Double Oak, Texas
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Stilton asks if tire pressures/temps on any aircraft:
On B777's operated by AA, yes.
Brake temperatures displayed on GEAR synoptic display.
Tire pressures, 0 to 400 PSI, are displayed inside the wheel symbols on GEAR synoptic display.
On B777's operated by AA, yes.
Brake temperatures displayed on GEAR synoptic display.
Tire pressures, 0 to 400 PSI, are displayed inside the wheel symbols on GEAR synoptic display.
Last edited by SKS777FLYER; 12th Jan 2015 at 23:44. Reason: Stilton
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10,000+ hrs on the 757/767 -
Facts - no brake temp gauges
no tire pressure gauges
on the airplane in question.
What causes multiple tire failures? Typically auto brake/anti skid problems
Taxiing a small corporate jet is nothing like taxiing a 767.
The plane taxi's at idle power at 400,000 lbs. It's under 310,000 lbs on landing. The plane was at idle power in the videos. There was no asymmetrical thrust or additional thrust required.
Drag from the flat tires? 18,000+ hrs in airliners, to include some flat tires. We never knew about the flat tires until we got to the gate. One or two flat tires wasn't noticeable. Don't know about four tires, especially that are rolling on the metal rims(low drag?).
A/c tilt from the blown tires on one side might have been the only clue I can think of. Not sure if it would be enough to notice.
Facts - no brake temp gauges
no tire pressure gauges
on the airplane in question.
What causes multiple tire failures? Typically auto brake/anti skid problems
Taxiing a small corporate jet is nothing like taxiing a 767.
The plane taxi's at idle power at 400,000 lbs. It's under 310,000 lbs on landing. The plane was at idle power in the videos. There was no asymmetrical thrust or additional thrust required.
Drag from the flat tires? 18,000+ hrs in airliners, to include some flat tires. We never knew about the flat tires until we got to the gate. One or two flat tires wasn't noticeable. Don't know about four tires, especially that are rolling on the metal rims(low drag?).
A/c tilt from the blown tires on one side might have been the only clue I can think of. Not sure if it would be enough to notice.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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A quick survey of airliners.net revealed that the following 767 airlines have at least brake temperatures:
Absa Cargo
Aeromexico
Air Canada
Air Europa
Air New Zealand
Ansett Australia
Austrian Airlines
British Airways (both tire px and brake temp)
Continental
Delta
Hainan Airlines
Kabo Air (Icelandic)
KLM (both)
Lan Chile
Lauda Air
Malaysian Airlines
Qantas Airways
Ryan International
Shanghai Airlines
Silk Way Airlines
Trans World
United Airlines
Varig
I also know that Air Pacific and All Nippon have had temp indications
American Airlines, El Al, North American Airlines and Malev were the only airlines shown on airliners.net which didn't have brake or tyre indications.
Here's a pic of an airline with both:
Photos: Boeing 767-336/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Absa Cargo
Aeromexico
Air Canada
Air Europa
Air New Zealand
Ansett Australia
Austrian Airlines
British Airways (both tire px and brake temp)
Continental
Delta
Hainan Airlines
Kabo Air (Icelandic)
KLM (both)
Lan Chile
Lauda Air
Malaysian Airlines
Qantas Airways
Ryan International
Shanghai Airlines
Silk Way Airlines
Trans World
United Airlines
Varig
I also know that Air Pacific and All Nippon have had temp indications
American Airlines, El Al, North American Airlines and Malev were the only airlines shown on airliners.net which didn't have brake or tyre indications.
Here's a pic of an airline with both:
Photos: Boeing 767-336/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
I fly an aircraft with BTMS and TPIS and on the two occasions that I’ve experienced a loss of pressure, warnings from the monitoring systems have been the only sign that anything was wrong. With two flat tyres on one side, it was difficult to tell even standing next to them.
What it would be like to run around on the rims for a while I don’t know but the rolling resistance probably wouldn’t change much (might even get less) and given that you are sitting a long way from the main gear and over the nose oleo, the harsher ride might not stand out. I recall GIG as not having the smoothest runways or taxiways at the best of times. Thinking back on it, some of the stands also had a lateral gradient, so even when parked you were not absolutely wings-level.
In situations like these, you rely on a) alerting systems, b) cabin crew noticing that it’s different from normal down the back and letting you know, c) ATC pointing it out or d) another aircraft doing the same. One would assume that none of these happened and that the flight crew were rather surprised by the state of the gear after they shut down. If they had known about the extent of the damage, I’m sure they would have come to a halt and declared an emergency.
What it would be like to run around on the rims for a while I don’t know but the rolling resistance probably wouldn’t change much (might even get less) and given that you are sitting a long way from the main gear and over the nose oleo, the harsher ride might not stand out. I recall GIG as not having the smoothest runways or taxiways at the best of times. Thinking back on it, some of the stands also had a lateral gradient, so even when parked you were not absolutely wings-level.
In situations like these, you rely on a) alerting systems, b) cabin crew noticing that it’s different from normal down the back and letting you know, c) ATC pointing it out or d) another aircraft doing the same. One would assume that none of these happened and that the flight crew were rather surprised by the state of the gear after they shut down. If they had known about the extent of the damage, I’m sure they would have come to a halt and declared an emergency.
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I think they were on fire/smoking well before they were flat. I think the general concensus is that there was an antiskid failure which probably meant the brakes had locked up, or were locking up too much (causing massive friction.. and heat).
Looks like there was so much heat, the tyres folded in on themselves. There is rubber layered on the areas between the rims.
What are your comments based on?
Looks like there was so much heat, the tyres folded in on themselves. There is rubber layered on the areas between the rims.
What are your comments based on?
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Just a few observations on this incident .
Surprised that ATC didn't notice that the a/c had blown tyres and also that no other agencies noticed on its journey to stand .
Some good reasons for the a/c to have stopped on the runway for inspection by AFS are potentially the undercarriage may have collapsed , hub disintegration may have caused injury to any one who was within range of the a/c , if the wheels had fully fired then this could have effected other systems of the aircraft , foreign object debris on runway and taxiways could have effected other a/c .
Surprised that ATC didn't notice that the a/c had blown tyres and also that no other agencies noticed on its journey to stand .
Some good reasons for the a/c to have stopped on the runway for inspection by AFS are potentially the undercarriage may have collapsed , hub disintegration may have caused injury to any one who was within range of the a/c , if the wheels had fully fired then this could have effected other systems of the aircraft , foreign object debris on runway and taxiways could have effected other a/c .
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Incident aircraft had past landing incident of same truck, but not all four tire blowout.
Aircraft taxied to gate at idle power, crew was unaware of blown tires until informed by ramp personnel.
Aircraft taxied to gate at idle power, crew was unaware of blown tires until informed by ramp personnel.
