Pilot's Job Threatened For Restricting Extra Lavatory
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Pilot's Job Threatened For Restricting Extra Lavatory
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20020531c.html
Pilot's Job Threatened For Restricting Extra Lavatory
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
May 31, 2002
Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - An American Airlines pilot says his job was threatened when he restricted access to one of four lavatories on his Boeing 757 jumbo jet for security reasons.
Capt. Dale McCombs was in command of a Dallas to Las Vegas round trip flight May 16 when he announced over the public address system that the lavatory and galley area immediately behind the cockpit were restricted to uniformed members of the crew only.
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Pilot's Job Threatened For Restricting Extra Lavatory
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
May 31, 2002
Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - An American Airlines pilot says his job was threatened when he restricted access to one of four lavatories on his Boeing 757 jumbo jet for security reasons.
Capt. Dale McCombs was in command of a Dallas to Las Vegas round trip flight May 16 when he announced over the public address system that the lavatory and galley area immediately behind the cockpit were restricted to uniformed members of the crew only.
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The don't call AA guys "sky Gods" without good reason...
The concerned Capt needs to be sent back...for retraining.
Suspect that the business/first class folks were not happy at all.
In todays environment, definately annoying high end yield pax is foolhardy indeed.
The concerned Capt needs to be sent back...for retraining.
Suspect that the business/first class folks were not happy at all.
In todays environment, definately annoying high end yield pax is foolhardy indeed.
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Actually Flanker - I know a few pilots who're partial to what you prescribe in the London TMA and, having seen it done first hand, I'd counsel agin it.
I.e. talk about the NHP working like a 'one armed wallpaper hangar' in order to save the HP (and their egos) from themselves !
Bravado of this nature, in an aeroplane full of pax, and O/H London (or anywhere) we can well do without...... and let's not forget that some departures & approaches at certain airports within the USA (and accordingly their associated TMA's) make those in UK look almost childs play !
I.e. talk about the NHP working like a 'one armed wallpaper hangar' in order to save the HP (and their egos) from themselves !
Bravado of this nature, in an aeroplane full of pax, and O/H London (or anywhere) we can well do without...... and let's not forget that some departures & approaches at certain airports within the USA (and accordingly their associated TMA's) make those in UK look almost childs play !
Last edited by Safety's No Accident; 31st May 2002 at 18:12.
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Sorry Safety..INA
I couldn't resist a sarcastic dig at 411a who was apparently taught by Count Von Zeppelin that such antics are good ideas.
( By the way Lindberghs' idea of duty hour limits look like making a big comeback)
It just makes me smile when pilots who make out of favour judgement calls are sent back ' for retraining' in the sim to fly an NDB, when really a brain transplant would be the only effective course of action.
I couldn't resist a sarcastic dig at 411a who was apparently taught by Count Von Zeppelin that such antics are good ideas.
( By the way Lindberghs' idea of duty hour limits look like making a big comeback)
It just makes me smile when pilots who make out of favour judgement calls are sent back ' for retraining' in the sim to fly an NDB, when really a brain transplant would be the only effective course of action.
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So why are you all so harsh on this hapless bloke?
Don't know about the rules on AA, but since sept 11 we have a rule in our mob that says "no unsupervised passengers allowed in any any galley areas nor in the area immediately behind the cockpit".
A sensible rule, right?
Catch is that while some pax or other always has to use the toilet located in the galley area immediately behind the cockpit, the company has not issued us with an extra FA to police the galley. And they still expect us to give the passengers the same level of F&B service.
In effect that means that the new and sensible safety rule is not enforced because NOT giving the service would immediately lead to complaining pax while not guarding the galley only comes to attention in case of a mishap.
If the sh!te does hit the fan via an unsupervised pax in that particular area, of course the FA's will get a whole load of manure dumped on their heads for being too stupid to stick to a simple safety rule.
The link doesn't work for me, but from my point of view (which of course might be totally off since I don't know AA procedures) this Captain has merely made sure that sensible procedure gets enforced, instead of expecting his FA's to accomplish the impossible.
By making the announcement that he made, he effectively took real responsibility for safety instead of paying mere lip service to the idea.
Good man in my book, and one with a fair idea of what goes on behind his locked cockpit door.
Wish our captains made that announcement on every flight.
Don't know about the rules on AA, but since sept 11 we have a rule in our mob that says "no unsupervised passengers allowed in any any galley areas nor in the area immediately behind the cockpit".
A sensible rule, right?
Catch is that while some pax or other always has to use the toilet located in the galley area immediately behind the cockpit, the company has not issued us with an extra FA to police the galley. And they still expect us to give the passengers the same level of F&B service.
In effect that means that the new and sensible safety rule is not enforced because NOT giving the service would immediately lead to complaining pax while not guarding the galley only comes to attention in case of a mishap.
If the sh!te does hit the fan via an unsupervised pax in that particular area, of course the FA's will get a whole load of manure dumped on their heads for being too stupid to stick to a simple safety rule.
The link doesn't work for me, but from my point of view (which of course might be totally off since I don't know AA procedures) this Captain has merely made sure that sensible procedure gets enforced, instead of expecting his FA's to accomplish the impossible.
By making the announcement that he made, he effectively took real responsibility for safety instead of paying mere lip service to the idea.
Good man in my book, and one with a fair idea of what goes on behind his locked cockpit door.
Wish our captains made that announcement on every flight.
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I wuz drivin de woorls fovoorit eerloin wen de frunt bog no work. justin case, oi also wuz droivin de 757 jumbo(upgraded) modell at de toime summwere betwen roam and thiefrow.
Pooerr! It niffed back thur in cattle, n I ad 2 weight n stare at my employuz(passengers)while dey pissed and crapped n made merry at my expense. (cor...oooos droivin der buss etc).
All as oi can say izz...if you wants to oijack a toilet...urr welcum to it.
Oi could do with a pee right now.
Pooerr! It niffed back thur in cattle, n I ad 2 weight n stare at my employuz(passengers)while dey pissed and crapped n made merry at my expense. (cor...oooos droivin der buss etc).
All as oi can say izz...if you wants to oijack a toilet...urr welcum to it.
Oi could do with a pee right now.
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I used to think that 411A's posts were worth reading- after a while, though, it became possible to skip them. Whatever the subject, he seems to post on the principle that the crew are wrong.
That reminds me of someone else who used to comment on every topic on the board.....
If 411A can point me in the direction of a topic where he does not immediately judge against the crew, I will of course stand corrected.
That reminds me of someone else who used to comment on every topic on the board.....
If 411A can point me in the direction of a topic where he does not immediately judge against the crew, I will of course stand corrected.
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Well, Capt Homesick....adequate crew rest would be just such a topic...do a search.
In general however, it's the crew in the white hats and management in the black hats. Seems to me that should not always be the case....'tis called "balance". Or...devils advocate, if you will.
In general however, it's the crew in the white hats and management in the black hats. Seems to me that should not always be the case....'tis called "balance". Or...devils advocate, if you will.
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Ok 411A, did a search using "adequate crew rest"- looked at 4 topics, didn't find a single post by you in any of them. Of the 6 topics offered by the search result, I didn't look at the MP3 forced down, or the bugs in the chinese leader's aircraft- read through all the others though.
So,I tried- I'm afraid all you get so far is a "not proven" verdict...
So,I tried- I'm afraid all you get so far is a "not proven" verdict...
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i'm the guy...
what training should i seek out?
sensitivity, security, compliance, skirt, makeup...
do we cede security as one of our concerns as captains?
or just go along with the bean counters making our security decisions for us.
dale
what training should i seek out?
sensitivity, security, compliance, skirt, makeup...
do we cede security as one of our concerns as captains?
or just go along with the bean counters making our security decisions for us.
dale
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Well duster (Dale)--
For starters...
Have a look back in the cabin. Those faces you see, all of them, pay your salary...every month.
IF you want 'em to fly with another carrier...and take their business elsewhere, keep it up. Yes indeed, restrict that forward lav for only the crew....those business/first class folks will just have to go down to the back, with all the other nuisance cargo...otherwise known as, "your bread and butter".
Yep, treat 'em like s@it, atta boy, go for it!
OTOH, seems to me that the COMPANY (you know, the folks that pay you that pax supplied salary every month, are the ones that should be making the security decisions. Of course, you may indeed not like this idea. In that case, why not donate part of your inflated salary to the AA Benevolent Fund for Disadvantaged Shareholders.
As an AMR shareholder, I sincerely look forward to your contribution.
In the meantime, get you a@@ back up front and "drive the bus".
Yours truly,
411A
PS: The training couse should be entitled, "How to enhance shareholder value, while keeping you nose out of security matters." A second course would be..."How to successfully keep your job."
PPS: Had dinner last month with a retired AA Captain. His biggest decision in life nowadays is to decide...."shall I buy the 55 foot or the 62 foot boat"....ah, decisions, decisions. Hope you have the oppontunity to make that choice someday. Keeping your nose in the cockpit (and OUT of cabin business) is a good start.
For starters...
Have a look back in the cabin. Those faces you see, all of them, pay your salary...every month.
IF you want 'em to fly with another carrier...and take their business elsewhere, keep it up. Yes indeed, restrict that forward lav for only the crew....those business/first class folks will just have to go down to the back, with all the other nuisance cargo...otherwise known as, "your bread and butter".
Yep, treat 'em like s@it, atta boy, go for it!
OTOH, seems to me that the COMPANY (you know, the folks that pay you that pax supplied salary every month, are the ones that should be making the security decisions. Of course, you may indeed not like this idea. In that case, why not donate part of your inflated salary to the AA Benevolent Fund for Disadvantaged Shareholders.
As an AMR shareholder, I sincerely look forward to your contribution.
In the meantime, get you a@@ back up front and "drive the bus".
Yours truly,
411A
PS: The training couse should be entitled, "How to enhance shareholder value, while keeping you nose out of security matters." A second course would be..."How to successfully keep your job."
PPS: Had dinner last month with a retired AA Captain. His biggest decision in life nowadays is to decide...."shall I buy the 55 foot or the 62 foot boat"....ah, decisions, decisions. Hope you have the oppontunity to make that choice someday. Keeping your nose in the cockpit (and OUT of cabin business) is a good start.
Last edited by 411A; 2nd Jun 2002 at 19:19.
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411A with the reasoned response ... NOT
Dale,
Before you waste a single moment on 411A's post above, I'll advise you not to bother.
Without resorting to personal attacks, which are forbidden here, I can educate you on the quality of his posts. Previous posts are fairly similar to the one above, so they have quickly established themselves as wind-up posts, although the ideas put forth are supposedly there for "balance". (GMAFB)
His above post doesn't take into account that the Captain IS responsible for inflight security.
And that part of a Captain's pay comes with the responsibility to make tough and sometimes unpopular decisions to ensure a safe flight.
Keep his "assertions" in perspective (i.e. don't take his bait).
Before you waste a single moment on 411A's post above, I'll advise you not to bother.
Without resorting to personal attacks, which are forbidden here, I can educate you on the quality of his posts. Previous posts are fairly similar to the one above, so they have quickly established themselves as wind-up posts, although the ideas put forth are supposedly there for "balance". (GMAFB)
His above post doesn't take into account that the Captain IS responsible for inflight security.
And that part of a Captain's pay comes with the responsibility to make tough and sometimes unpopular decisions to ensure a safe flight.
Keep his "assertions"
in perspective (i.e. don't take his bait).
Last edited by AA76757; 2nd Jun 2002 at 19:51.
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Still fighting off gremlins from 9-11..?
The captain was wrong to ban pax access to the forward lav. To be sure, the captain needs to have his head examined by a psychologist before total security paranoia consumes his mental state. Until his mental state is corrected, he shouldn't be at the controls of a pax jet.
If crewmembers were to be given a free hand to individualize company policy and procedures, then passenger service and passenger comfort would become incidental to air transportation. It would become an employes' airline.
If crewmembers were to be given a free hand to individualize company policy and procedures, then passenger service and passenger comfort would become incidental to air transportation. It would become an employes' airline.
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Well Dale,
You could indeed take the "advice" from AA76757...but then consider....
Many companies nowadays are looking elsewhere for travel arrangements for execs. Executive Jets is doing "land office business" and has ordered hundreds of jet aircraft...for just the folks that you seem to want to...pi@@ off. Fractionals as well.
Our own little company illustrates....the major investors want to travel to SE Asia, business/first class. The last time they checked in for that SE Asia flight in LAX, the wait at security was...3 hours. When they got to the business class lounge, no Jack Danials left in the bar.
So, they ask...."is there a better way?" Of course we say....and the JetStar II (ah...4 engine Lockheed!) is now in the budget (because it can make HNL, where two of the guys have a condo)....and you can bet that the bar will NOT run out of Jack Danials.
Make NO mistake, the business/first class pax pay the bills...BIG time. Whinging pilots do NOT.
But then...many here are whinging pilots. Your guy Carty is in DC now trying to iron out the security problems (and has good ideas). Suggest you DO NOT upset the applecart.
Anyway, WELCOME to PPRuNe!!! Always a lively discussion.
In case you have noticed...some do NOT like my opinions (especially the Brits)..but then, they are not in management. But that's OK.... all views "on the table". Always have liked a lively debate.
Brgds...411A
You could indeed take the "advice" from AA76757...but then consider....
Many companies nowadays are looking elsewhere for travel arrangements for execs. Executive Jets is doing "land office business" and has ordered hundreds of jet aircraft...for just the folks that you seem to want to...pi@@ off. Fractionals as well.
Our own little company illustrates....the major investors want to travel to SE Asia, business/first class. The last time they checked in for that SE Asia flight in LAX, the wait at security was...3 hours. When they got to the business class lounge, no Jack Danials left in the bar.
So, they ask...."is there a better way?" Of course we say....and the JetStar II (ah...4 engine Lockheed!) is now in the budget (because it can make HNL, where two of the guys have a condo)....and you can bet that the bar will NOT run out of Jack Danials.
Make NO mistake, the business/first class pax pay the bills...BIG time. Whinging pilots do NOT.
But then...many here are whinging pilots. Your guy Carty is in DC now trying to iron out the security problems (and has good ideas). Suggest you DO NOT upset the applecart.
Anyway, WELCOME to PPRuNe!!! Always a lively discussion.
In case you have noticed...some do NOT like my opinions (especially the Brits)..but then, they are not in management. But that's OK.... all views "on the table". Always have liked a lively debate.
Brgds...411A