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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

Old 18th Aug 2014, 04:19
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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This pilots been with this company in its many guises for over 16 years and has flown with this 'disability' for over 20. First time this has ever happened. He is a first rate pilot....highly regarded by his peers and others who have flown with him. Those who know what they're talking about have no issues here, so maybe the ignorant can just keep quiet!
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 06:43
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Those who know what they're talking about have no issues here, so maybe the ignorant can just keep quiet!
Yet the fact is that a number of passengers were placed at increased risk, due to an un-briefed failure mode, resulting in the aircraft suffering a heavy landing with no-one in control of the thrust levers.

That is not acceptable and I am sure steps have already been taken to mitigate the risk, but it did happen and I don't think there is room for macho comments about 'the ignorant', as those conducting the flight were proven to be ignorant of the risk and the response plan, to the degree that it was not briefed.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 09:10
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Three Thousand Rule
Yet the fact is that a number of passengers were placed at increased risk, due to an un-briefed failure mode, resulting in the aircraft suffering a heavy landing with no-one in control of the thrust levers.
And how many times has this happened and never been reported by pilots with all four limbs, this only came to light because the person in question had the balls to report it in the first place.

Last edited by Above The Clouds; 18th Aug 2014 at 13:20. Reason: text
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 09:12
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Well, in this case the risk assessment was proven wrong, and no matter how nice this pilot is, he could have killed people had this developed into an accident.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 09:15
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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ManaAdaSystem
Well, in this case the risk assessment was proven wrong, and no matter how nice this pilot is, he could have killed people had this developed into an accident.
So no different to every other pilot on the planet then.

Last edited by Above The Clouds; 18th Aug 2014 at 13:15. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 09:18
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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It was so dangerous that the aircraft was found to be UNDAMAGED!

It bounced! ! Every bounced landing is a potential death threat now?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 11:02
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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A friend of mine touched down, lowered the nose gear gently to the runway and said "Captain, your aircraft." He then slumped forward on the yoke having had a heart attack. ( He survived ).

Lose a limb? Lose a heart and consciousness? What's the difference?

That's why we have two pilots in the cockpit, right?

Move along, nothing to see here.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 11:28
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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@ TTR
the aircraft suffering a heavy landing with no-one in control of the thrust levers.
I'd venture to suggest that the latency/lag-time, call it what you will, exceeded the time from lost grip to landing.

A total red-herring, it didn't and probably wouldn't have made a jot of difference.A minor hiccup and he was being overly cautious in reporting the heavy landing.....sheesh,you see a lot hairier stuff on yootoob
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:12
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Yet the fact is that a number of passengers were placed at increased risk, due to an un-briefed failure mode, resulting in the aircraft suffering a heavy landing with no-one in control of the thrust levers.
Whether the passengers were exposed to "increased risk" (however we choose to define that) is a moot point and the OP will have observed from subsequent posts that opinion varies widely about that.

But the other two parts of his/her assertion are harder to dispute: yes, it was a heavy landing (per the AAIB) and yes, the potential failure of the prosthetic wasn't briefed (hence the commander's undertaking to do so in future).

Move along, nothing to see here.
Agreed, but before we do so, file under "lessons learned".
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:43
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Fair enough.......potential failure of a metal arm......not much hope for those of us with bones?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:45
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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For the people who have had a go at my post, may I just remind you that I was not bigging this event up (in fact, in my earlier post, I expressed concern that it was reported as 'loss of control' and the effect this may have on the captain involved and other disabled pilots.)

I am on the side of the captain. He landed the aircraft safely.

However, Sharkslayer posted

Those who know what they're talking about have no issues here, so maybe the ignorant can just keep quiet!
(My emboldening.)

The fact is that the event was not briefed, the thrust levers were not under control and the aircraft suffered a heavy landing as a result.

I don't think that telling the ignorant to be quiet is a reasonable approach, when the aircraft was operated in a manner it was not mean to and an incident resulted.

I agree that the captain took a judgement call to get the safest outcome by using years of experience and there probably was not enough time to organize a safe go around, but I cannot see how the risk to the pax was not increased by the incident (even if only slightly), bearing in mind that CRM broke down or more possibly there was no time for it to be used.

There is a saying that people in glass houses are best advised to refrain from throwing stones, that is my only point.

DaveReid(UK) sums it up nicely with his 'lessons learned' comment and I am sure they have been.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 13:16
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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I am not a professional, as you would know if you read my post earlier on the thread, where I was very clear about it. I have made several hundred landings, so have some insight into the challenges posed by a combination of difficult weather and unexpected events.

I have no criticism of the captain, I think he took a good call under difficult circumstances and ensured the safety of his pax, as well as being responsible enough to file the report. My earlier post expressed concern that the press would stir up the matter and it would affect him and other disabled colleagues.

The 'facts' I quoted were that the event was not briefed, the power levers were unguarded and there was a heavy landing. I also expressed an opinion that the risk to pax was raised, even though it may have been only slightly, others may disagree. These points are no criticism of the captain, who was placed in a difficult and unforeseen situation, being ignorant of the risk.

I think you need to wind in your neck and refrain from calling others ignorant, when the CAA, airline etc didn't see the risk and plan for it.

No doubt that is no longer the case.

By the way, when one needs to resort to insults, it is usually a sign of an inability to articulate a perspective effectively.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 14:15
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Lose a limb? Lose a heart and consciousness? What's the difference?

That's why we have two pilots in the cockpit, right?

Move along, nothing to see here.
It's not a valid point.
Because, of course we can lose control by natural problems (heart attack etc)

BUT is it a reason to ADD problems or to add unkowns X or Y in the equation ? (by accepting artificial prothesis )

the difference between these 2 is:
1) we don't have choice, we are human being
2) it is just about rules and medical conditions. We do have the choice to avoid...
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 14:26
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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and the world calls CRM Human Factors....but you'd know that as an aviation professional
CRM, while it does concern itself with the practical application of Human Factors, is actually a rather wider concept.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 15:16
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Very professional of the captain to file an ASR . He sounds like a pro and a great guy to continue operational flying with a disability. However... it is not unreasonable to discuss the incident and it is certainly not professional nor appropriate to call anyone ' an arsehole' for proffering a different view.I don't see anyone here calling for him to stop flying.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 15:34
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Doesn't matter how nice a guy he is the fact is that the aircraft was out of control in a critical phase of flight.

Some people seem to think that's ok because the pilot is a nice dude.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 17:23
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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A friend of mine touched down, lowered the nose gear gently to the runway and said "Captain, your aircraft." He then slumped forward on the yoke having had a heart attack. ( He survived ).

Lose a limb? Lose a heart and consciousness? What's the difference?

That's why we have two pilots in the cockpit, right?

Move along, nothing to see here.
What's the difference? If you really can't work out what the difference is I hope I never find myself reliant on your judgement, irrespective of the number of limbs it's attached to...
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 19:27
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know how common, if other countries, issue class 1 medicals to commercial airline pilots with prosthetic arms ?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 20:23
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Sure, there's a lesson to be learnt from this - isn't there always? - but behind the headline is an inspirational story of a guy who clearly wasn't going to let the "mere" loss of an arm get in the way of his chosen career.

Ok so I'm "just" an SLF, but I'd fly with him tomorrow.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 21:37
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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So you've made several hundred landings TTR!

What an expert you must be. Here's me getting all confused about what the first P in PPRuNe stands for.

Now I remember why I stopped looking at this site. Too many wannabes!

Cya.
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