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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

Old 15th Aug 2014, 15:38
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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"Arm down and locked"
That is naughty but very funny
And is a fairly accurate summation of the AAIB bulletin's conclusion.
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 15:39
  #122 (permalink)  


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Thumbs up

(Ex-Speedbird I wonder if we ever met in Cranebank - I was one of those in white coats in the days of 707, VC-10s, and eventually 737/757)!

You beat me to it - Douglas Bader!

Now, as I understand it, investigations into "aircraft incidents" are usually designed not to "find the culprits" but to prevent it happening again. I noticed in the BBC report that the gentleman concerned has already stated that he'll check his "attachment" more thoroughly in future and also brief his right-hand-seat what to do in the remote chance of it happening again.

The whole thing seems to have been the usual over-reaction in the media, and reading between even their lines, everything was taken care of pretty well by a very experienced and competent pilot.

He obviously can think and act quickly and, if he were flying the GF this Sunday morning, DXB-BAH, I'd feel in good - oh no - you know what I mean
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 15:40
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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"This subject goes deeper than it appears! flying is an occupation/profession unlike any where every year a pilot has to present himself/herself for a first class medical to continue with their livelihood /profession."

Depending on their age seafarers and marine pilots have to present themselves regularly for medicals. Over 40 and it is every two years. An ENG1 is similar to an aviation class 2 without the cardiograph. No ENG1, no job. I know of one captain who was made medically redundant because he was on blood pressure tablets, which I understand are acceptable in the aviation industry!
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 18:05
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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every year a pilot has to present himself/herself for a first class medical
Over 40yo it's every 6 months. Over 50yo the ECG is also every 6 months.

The nurses once complained that my pulse was too slow and said the lady AME could be concerned that I'd briefly lose consciousness on the approach They said they had to increase my pulse rate but, as a glimmer of a smile crossed my face, they quickly pointed out that they did not provide such services

Another time, apparently because, when having an ECG, I'm too relaxed, I had an inverted P-wave. As soon as I moved around it was OK but what a kerfuffle that caused. Stress ECG then, because that highlighted something else, off to hospital to have a radioactive tracer injected. Final report: nothing wrong.

Someone earlier mentioned Loss of Licence insurance. In my experience no LoL ins I've ever had would have gone far towards fully compensating for losing one's licence.
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 18:49
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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I find it sad that in todays world so many continue to mock and question a truly professional and experienced pilot
Nobody is mocking him, however as a former professional pilot myself I am kind of surprised he managed to get a Class 1, because A) the CAA is completely anal and B) (at least in my experience) not exactly lenient.
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 19:20
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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From b263354

I already have problems with collegues wearing glasses, but I guess I tolerate that.
Well if you really are 39 make the most of your next few years as presumably you will do the decent thing and step aside when the inevitable happens in your mid-forties.

Over 40yo it's every 6 months. Over 50yo the ECG is also every 6 months
Times move on and even for us older types (with glasses) it's yearly
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 20:52
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Pilots artificial arm

I feel compelled to add to my post yesterday. Unsavoury and I believe ill informed comments continue to be published both here and in the press about this incident. I fully understand the possible concerns of travelling public but they are not aided by what I perceive to be ill informed remarks. Therefore unless you are medically qualified, work for thCAA or have a relevant Health and Safety qualification I respectfully suggest that you reflect before writing. My son was a first officer with the airline concerned and flew with this captain who he would describe as first class. Again I say "well done catain".
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 21:43
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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tocamak,
Times move on and even for us older types (with glasses) it's yearly
You're kidding me! These youngsters nowadays; they don't know how lucky they are!
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 08:07
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Its still 6 months for single crew ops, but 12 for multicrew ops.
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 08:57
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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ACCIDENT RATE.

How many (fatal/hull loss) accidents where fatigue was and will continue to be a factor? Dozens.

How many ............. where detached/failed prosthetic a factor? ??

Anyone genuinely worried about future accidents should be shouting from the rooftops about the new EASA FTLs, commercial pressures and the obviously inadequate psycho screening through which professional pilots manage to slip unknown til after their accident report is published!

Asiana, THY @AMS, Lionair, AF447 and many others I could quote all had theoretically perfectly formed crewmembers, yet they failed the ultimate test in better weather conditions. Again I will call for the brain- limb/voice/vision interface to be better examined as a way of reducing the HF accident rate.

Many fatal accident reports quote commercial pressures and/or costcutting as contributory factors, yet the inhabitants of the average airline "handbrake house" or HQ are NOT subject to formal assessment of their decision-making processes.

Money to be made by the AAs various in catching these villains in the aptitude/ medical fitness nets might encourage those authorities to consider this link in the accident chain.

But then I woke up and realised it was daytime..............

As for this incident with this individual, "nothing to see here, move on!"
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 09:05
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Must be a bit difficult making entries into the FMC....
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 09:20
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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BARKINGMAD, Agree with most of your comment, esp re psych monitoring (tricky one) and rudder and stick ability (bit more realism from training departments).
Re 'nothing to see': I believe that I previously mentioned that I make no adverse criticism whatsoever of the captain involved who, judging by comments from those who know him, appears to be a outstanding person but it DID come as a surprise to me that a Class 1 would be issued to a pilot who was fitted with a prosthetic limb or part thereof however, if the CAA meds have researched and approved . . .

Before anyone else cites Gp Capt Bader, this is about professional civil aviation. The RAF is, quite rightly, a law unto itself and the procedures applied are irrelevant to the case under discussion.

p.s. BARKINGMAD, I see you give your occupation as 'General Dogsbody'. I know the feeling but, checking Douglas Bader's retiring rank in Wiki, I see that 'Dogsbody' was his nickname.

Last edited by Basil; 16th Aug 2014 at 09:23. Reason: p.s.
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 09:27
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Must be a bit difficult making entries into the FMC....
As a Captain in the left hand seat it would indeed be far worse to have your right arm missing rather than the left which would be a bigger problem.
Flying as an FO the opposite would be true.
Working up to flying as a Captain and starting in the right seat I would imagine loading radio frequencies FMS and even sliding the mike button( sometimes difficult and sensitive with normal limbs) and all the other challenges required of an FO would be much harder.
I am not qualified to know how sensitive these false arms are to making such fine changes as not only do loading frequencies require delicate pushing movements but also twisting movements.
you have a valid point which maybe someone who does know can answer

Last edited by Pace; 16th Aug 2014 at 09:43.
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 09:37
  #134 (permalink)  
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Can we please stop the analogies of glasses falling off etc.... When we strap ourselves to our seat, we ensure that the seat height/reach/pitch is correct. We ensure the rudder pedals are in the correct position to give full rudder authority. We ensure our eye-height is correct.

In short we ensure that we become "part" of the aircraft with full and free movement of all controls with the correct picture/aspect out of the window. Detachment of a limb results in a "broken" aircraft and, as others have mentioned, in an out of trim condition (wrestling down a gusty turbulent approach?), there is an increased risk of sudden nose up/down with insuffcient time to recover correct.

So, if your glasses fall off, you can still add power/pitch and hand over control. If you've effectively let go of the control column it's potentially a different scenario altogether.

I'm sure the appropriate measures have been implemented and I wish the said gentlemen well - but if there is a recurrence of this type of episode anywhere (who's going to report it now?) I suspect the CAA will be forced, by public / political opinion to change it's stance on prosthetics. Additionally, in today's litigious society the insurers will start to demand more - may be they already do?
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 10:25
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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This story just goes to show how dangerous the media can be. The event happened ages ago and in the time since the landing and it making the headlines I suspect the Captain involved has completed many landings without issue.

I cannot believe for one second that his colleagues at his base did not know about his arm and should he have been away from base or working with unfamiliar crew I cannot believe the FO did not notice this. Had the FO been aware of the issues surrounding the "detachment" he or she would have taken control. The very small window of opportunity for any communication is ultimately the reason why no hand over of flight controls were made. It is an unfortunate incident but very isolated.

Maybe a bit more awareness and observation during critical stages of flight is necessary and it sounds like Flybe have recognised that through their review of procedures

I for one have no problem with the Captain and hope that he continues to enjoy the career which he so loves.
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 10:44
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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@Pace
I am not qualified to know how sensitive these false arms are to making such fine changes as not only do loading frequencies require delicate pushing movements but also twisting movements.
As an entertaining diversion, try yootoob or googoo for "JCB display/demonstration team"

Effectively, you have the same situation Operator twiddles joystick which operates hydraulic valves, which move rams, which move arms/linkages/components.......so, there's plenty of system "slop",- yet he can still make the machine pick up a matchbox without crushing it!
Does the control- chain sound familiar? The insertion of a Prostheticlimb into that chain, is a totally insignificant detail.

I don't ever remember seeing a single piece of broken.discarded false limb abandoned inthe environment,therefore one can conclude they're pretty well built.....OTOH, one sees plenty of broken aircraft bits around!
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 11:56
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Pilots who loose their glasses don't go blind, and they are required to bring an extra pair when they fly.

Pilots hopefully don't get certified (medically or otherwise) for sentimental reasons, but with flight safety in mind.
I have no problem flying with somebody with an artifical limb as long as they are certified and provided they have proved they can operate the aircraft safely in all conditions.
Sadly, in this case failure of the artifical limb was the cause of the incident. It could have been an accident.
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 12:02
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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How many times do certified aircraft do bits fall off them?

Those cowls that have come open numerous times but the aircraft still flies and to my knowledge the sum total of the fix for it is paper work stating that all pilots must check the cowls before departure.

And as he seem to be a bit of a professional he has already changed his personal SOP's to check his gimp mod to be able to fly.

And before you all get upset a gimp mod is a common term in the disable flying community for any mod to allow someone without the full quota of limbs and any other bits that we would normally use.
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 12:23
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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How many times do bits fall off or become detatched from "regular" pilots?
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Old 16th Aug 2014, 13:05
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Well if we include finger nails. Loads more times.

Staved thumbs from tillers seen that a couple of times.

Stubbed toe with ingrowing nail, you would have thought the guy had just had a red hot poker shoved up his backside. The scream was animal.

And being bitten by a jeps folder can romove flesh and produce remarkable amounts of blood.


Its a mountain out of a mole hill. Way more important things to get sorted.
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