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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

Old 18th Aug 2014, 11:28
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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@ TTR
the aircraft suffering a heavy landing with no-one in control of the thrust levers.
I'd venture to suggest that the latency/lag-time, call it what you will, exceeded the time from lost grip to landing.

A total red-herring, it didn't and probably wouldn't have made a jot of difference.A minor hiccup and he was being overly cautious in reporting the heavy landing.....sheesh,you see a lot hairier stuff on yootoob
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:12
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Yet the fact is that a number of passengers were placed at increased risk, due to an un-briefed failure mode, resulting in the aircraft suffering a heavy landing with no-one in control of the thrust levers.
Whether the passengers were exposed to "increased risk" (however we choose to define that) is a moot point and the OP will have observed from subsequent posts that opinion varies widely about that.

But the other two parts of his/her assertion are harder to dispute: yes, it was a heavy landing (per the AAIB) and yes, the potential failure of the prosthetic wasn't briefed (hence the commander's undertaking to do so in future).

Move along, nothing to see here.
Agreed, but before we do so, file under "lessons learned".
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:43
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Fair enough.......potential failure of a metal arm......not much hope for those of us with bones?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:45
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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For the people who have had a go at my post, may I just remind you that I was not bigging this event up (in fact, in my earlier post, I expressed concern that it was reported as 'loss of control' and the effect this may have on the captain involved and other disabled pilots.)

I am on the side of the captain. He landed the aircraft safely.

However, Sharkslayer posted

Those who know what they're talking about have no issues here, so maybe the ignorant can just keep quiet!
(My emboldening.)

The fact is that the event was not briefed, the thrust levers were not under control and the aircraft suffered a heavy landing as a result.

I don't think that telling the ignorant to be quiet is a reasonable approach, when the aircraft was operated in a manner it was not mean to and an incident resulted.

I agree that the captain took a judgement call to get the safest outcome by using years of experience and there probably was not enough time to organize a safe go around, but I cannot see how the risk to the pax was not increased by the incident (even if only slightly), bearing in mind that CRM broke down or more possibly there was no time for it to be used.

There is a saying that people in glass houses are best advised to refrain from throwing stones, that is my only point.

DaveReid(UK) sums it up nicely with his 'lessons learned' comment and I am sure they have been.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 13:16
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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I am not a professional, as you would know if you read my post earlier on the thread, where I was very clear about it. I have made several hundred landings, so have some insight into the challenges posed by a combination of difficult weather and unexpected events.

I have no criticism of the captain, I think he took a good call under difficult circumstances and ensured the safety of his pax, as well as being responsible enough to file the report. My earlier post expressed concern that the press would stir up the matter and it would affect him and other disabled colleagues.

The 'facts' I quoted were that the event was not briefed, the power levers were unguarded and there was a heavy landing. I also expressed an opinion that the risk to pax was raised, even though it may have been only slightly, others may disagree. These points are no criticism of the captain, who was placed in a difficult and unforeseen situation, being ignorant of the risk.

I think you need to wind in your neck and refrain from calling others ignorant, when the CAA, airline etc didn't see the risk and plan for it.

No doubt that is no longer the case.

By the way, when one needs to resort to insults, it is usually a sign of an inability to articulate a perspective effectively.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 14:15
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Lose a limb? Lose a heart and consciousness? What's the difference?

That's why we have two pilots in the cockpit, right?

Move along, nothing to see here.
It's not a valid point.
Because, of course we can lose control by natural problems (heart attack etc)

BUT is it a reason to ADD problems or to add unkowns X or Y in the equation ? (by accepting artificial prothesis )

the difference between these 2 is:
1) we don't have choice, we are human being
2) it is just about rules and medical conditions. We do have the choice to avoid...
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 14:26
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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and the world calls CRM Human Factors....but you'd know that as an aviation professional
CRM, while it does concern itself with the practical application of Human Factors, is actually a rather wider concept.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 15:16
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Very professional of the captain to file an ASR . He sounds like a pro and a great guy to continue operational flying with a disability. However... it is not unreasonable to discuss the incident and it is certainly not professional nor appropriate to call anyone ' an arsehole' for proffering a different view.I don't see anyone here calling for him to stop flying.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 15:34
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Doesn't matter how nice a guy he is the fact is that the aircraft was out of control in a critical phase of flight.

Some people seem to think that's ok because the pilot is a nice dude.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 17:23
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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A friend of mine touched down, lowered the nose gear gently to the runway and said "Captain, your aircraft." He then slumped forward on the yoke having had a heart attack. ( He survived ).

Lose a limb? Lose a heart and consciousness? What's the difference?

That's why we have two pilots in the cockpit, right?

Move along, nothing to see here.
What's the difference? If you really can't work out what the difference is I hope I never find myself reliant on your judgement, irrespective of the number of limbs it's attached to...
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 19:03
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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I remember now why I stopped bothering with this forum!

As I said before no issues with the guy flying my family! I would argue he is actually a better and safer pilot for his disability! Having had to prove himself and overcome uneducated bigots in the industry!

I find it incredible to find myself saying, thank goodness the CAA is an enlightened regulator. Some on this forum could actually learn something from them!

Every single flight ever operated comes with risk! Risk management is what we are paid to do! Who are you going to say is increasing the risks to flight safety next? The 60plus pilot who is long in the tooth and should call it a day? The young pilot who is more gung-ho, but lacks the experience/attitude to risks?

Or shall we single people out that are ethnic minorities or homosexuals?

The CAA IN MORE THAN ONE COUNTRY HAVE ISSUED A MEDICAL TO SAY HE IS FIT TO FLY!!!!

MORE THAN ONE airline employs disabled pilots!

Let's be honest more fatalities are associated with mental health issues or fatigue than the failure of an artificial limb!!!
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 19:05
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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Spandex, it's not ok because he is a nice guy! It's ok because he is a professional with integrity! You could learn a lot from the man!
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 19:27
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Anyone know how common, if other countries, issue class 1 medicals to commercial airline pilots with prosthetic arms ?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 20:23
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Sure, there's a lesson to be learnt from this - isn't there always? - but behind the headline is an inspirational story of a guy who clearly wasn't going to let the "mere" loss of an arm get in the way of his chosen career.

Ok so I'm "just" an SLF, but I'd fly with him tomorrow.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 21:37
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So you've made several hundred landings TTR!

What an expert you must be. Here's me getting all confused about what the first P in Pprune stands for.

Now I remember why I stopped looking at this site. Too many wannabes!

Cya.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 21:41
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He also paved the way for many others, and continues to mentor and assist disabled pilots.

He is not the only one though, ever heard of the British disabled flying association? A fabulous charity that all on this site should try to support. Either with cash or your time in a light aircraft, or visits to your company. It's nice to put a little back into the industry that has been your career.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 23:02
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I really cannot imagine a situation where the copilot couldn't have taken over , or assisted with throttles, or even the captain make a go around.


Sorry, doesn't make sense, no matter what part of the approach/landing an instantaneous and successful change of control assuming competence in both chairs/pilots.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 23:46
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If they changed the rules to age 65 if the other pilot is below 60 in case the older pilot can't perform his duties because of physical incapacitation why not let a pilot with an artificial limb be allowed to fly with a pilot without disabilities?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 23:55
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So you've made several hundred landings TTR!

What an expert you must be. Here's me getting all confused about what the first P in PPRuNe stands for.

Now I remember why I stopped looking at this site. Too many wannabes!

Cya.
Wannabe?

No thank you, flying has always been a privilege for me, not a profession.

As stated in my original post, which you obviously didn't read, several hundred landings is enough to have experienced difficult wx conditions and unexpected events on landing, giving me a sense of empathy for the captain and respect for his decision under difficult circumstances.

And it must be said that the tone of your postings forgets what the first P in the site title means.
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Old 19th Aug 2014, 01:48
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Said captain, several thousand landings! In an airliner!!!!

I think this may be my last visit to this website that has btw become a joke!!! Oh and I assume where lazy journos pick up "factual" stories when they are in a slow news day!!!! Prune your principles have hit the urinal! Danny step in this is not what you set it up for!!!!!
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