Ryanair and 900 hours a year limitation?
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This is off-topic, but, Capt. KAOS, you think an airline can discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation? You think that revelations such as this should not be aired? You would want to work for such an airline? Or is it only allegations of safety breaches which can be announced here?
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Dear Captain,
"You think an airline can discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation? "
Of course not! Some of my best friends are gay and are highly qualified for their jobs. And damn funny too!
"You think that revelations such as this should not be aired?"
Hell no! I see no relevance in referring to revelation which makes no sense?
"You would want to work for such an airline?"
Cetainly not! I'm a great advocate of personal freedom, as long as it doesn't clash with the profession. They're all great pursers.
"Or is it only allegations of safety breaches which can be announced here?"
Again no! I'm a great advocate of freedom of speach! But was has visiting bars to do with safety?
That brings me to the question: the management saw the capt. coming out of these bars.....were they there to spy on him?...... or were leaving the bar as well and spotted the capt. by accident, in other words.....calling the kettle black?
Sincerly,
Capt.KAOS
"You think an airline can discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation? "
Of course not! Some of my best friends are gay and are highly qualified for their jobs. And damn funny too!
"You think that revelations such as this should not be aired?"
Hell no! I see no relevance in referring to revelation which makes no sense?
"You would want to work for such an airline?"
Cetainly not! I'm a great advocate of personal freedom, as long as it doesn't clash with the profession. They're all great pursers.
"Or is it only allegations of safety breaches which can be announced here?"
Again no! I'm a great advocate of freedom of speach! But was has visiting bars to do with safety?
That brings me to the question: the management saw the capt. coming out of these bars.....were they there to spy on him?...... or were leaving the bar as well and spotted the capt. by accident, in other words.....calling the kettle black?
Sincerly,
Capt.KAOS
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Visiting bars has nothing to do with safety, unless consumption of alcohol outside the legal limts before flying is involved. The (hypothetical) email suggests that they are gay bars and the pilot concerned is gay, and being victimised for that by his airline.
You mention pursers in your company. This is only one of several assumptions you seem to have made in two posts. I suspect that you probably also have gay pilots. Ever wondered why they may not be "out"?
Why does the revelation not make sense? An accusation against an airline of discrimination on the grounds of sexuality is a serious matter. In the hypothetical email suggested by Danny, it would be one more nail in the coffin of "Royal Norwegian" who appear to have a very poor safety culture as well, and more grounds for possible libel suits. Hence Danny's comments.
Can we now return to the theme of the thread, which is the allegations against Ryanair?
You mention pursers in your company. This is only one of several assumptions you seem to have made in two posts. I suspect that you probably also have gay pilots. Ever wondered why they may not be "out"?
Why does the revelation not make sense? An accusation against an airline of discrimination on the grounds of sexuality is a serious matter. In the hypothetical email suggested by Danny, it would be one more nail in the coffin of "Royal Norwegian" who appear to have a very poor safety culture as well, and more grounds for possible libel suits. Hence Danny's comments.
Can we now return to the theme of the thread, which is the allegations against Ryanair?
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Well Capt. Stable let's give it a try. I am sure that a lot of airlines these days are doing their upmost to walk the thin line and trying to squeeze the optimum / efficient hours ( read maximum) out of us overpaid, self centered and spoiled brads (read pilots). It does make you wonder if there is a future sometimes. Something like retire at 60 and 10 ft deep at 62. Maybe this is a pessimistic outlook, or may be not.
I heard that JAR FTL has a newly written draft ready for discussion, there should have been a meeting in Brussels early July about this topic. Can anyone confirm this and if so what will happen from now on??
I heard that JAR FTL has a newly written draft ready for discussion, there should have been a meeting in Brussels early July about this topic. Can anyone confirm this and if so what will happen from now on??
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Oh Captain, my captain.......
Excuse me sir, are you actually reading my message or are you only looking at it?
I wasn't the one who made up that silly e-mail, just wanted to show that it didn't made any sense and I'm sure it has fooled more than one member.
And I wasn't the one who made this OT questions, being even more silly than the email itself. Silly questions, silly answers.
I agree with the democratic moddy and hope we can go back to the actual RyanAir Weight Watchers topic: "What's the fuel load this morning "?
As always, sincerely,
Capt.KAOS
Excuse me sir, are you actually reading my message or are you only looking at it?
I wasn't the one who made up that silly e-mail, just wanted to show that it didn't made any sense and I'm sure it has fooled more than one member.
And I wasn't the one who made this OT questions, being even more silly than the email itself. Silly questions, silly answers.
I agree with the democratic moddy and hope we can go back to the actual RyanAir Weight Watchers topic: "What's the fuel load this morning "?
As always, sincerely,
Capt.KAOS
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Dear Gulfpilot,
I heard the same rumour. But I shan't be holding my breath for it to be ratified. The way the existing JAR's are going at present, all the states will file differences, it will be four years (at least) before they are ratified, and then it will still be years before each company changes its FTL scheme in line with the new rules.
One does wonder, though, what is involved in "zeroing" or "resetting" 900-hour limits. As BEagle says, 900 hours per year can only mean a maximum of 900 hours on duty in any period of 365 consecutive days.
I heard the same rumour. But I shan't be holding my breath for it to be ratified. The way the existing JAR's are going at present, all the states will file differences, it will be four years (at least) before they are ratified, and then it will still be years before each company changes its FTL scheme in line with the new rules.
One does wonder, though, what is involved in "zeroing" or "resetting" 900-hour limits. As BEagle says, 900 hours per year can only mean a maximum of 900 hours on duty in any period of 365 consecutive days.
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Hugmonster/Gulfpilot
No rumour, the draft can be found at: http://www.europarl.eu.int/meetdocs/...7/465304en.pdf . According to the newsletter of the European Parliament's RETT Committee newsletter -
http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/r...news150702.pdf - the Committee approved the draft last week. The draft is an amendment to a legislative proposal to adapt JAR-OPS into EC law which is subject to the co-decison procedure (I can go into boring detail if you're interested). The next step is for the proposal to considered by a plenary session of Parliament. If endorsed by parliament it will also need to be approved by the EC Council (ie the govts of the member states). If adopted the legislation would become directly applicable in the member states with no option of differences. I think that the current proposed timescale that the legislation would take effect within 6 months of publication of the legislation.
Unfortuantely there appears to problems over the cabin crew training provisions in the draft regulation which may prevent it from being adopted.
No rumour, the draft can be found at: http://www.europarl.eu.int/meetdocs/...7/465304en.pdf . According to the newsletter of the European Parliament's RETT Committee newsletter -
http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/r...news150702.pdf - the Committee approved the draft last week. The draft is an amendment to a legislative proposal to adapt JAR-OPS into EC law which is subject to the co-decison procedure (I can go into boring detail if you're interested). The next step is for the proposal to considered by a plenary session of Parliament. If endorsed by parliament it will also need to be approved by the EC Council (ie the govts of the member states). If adopted the legislation would become directly applicable in the member states with no option of differences. I think that the current proposed timescale that the legislation would take effect within 6 months of publication of the legislation.
Unfortuantely there appears to problems over the cabin crew training provisions in the draft regulation which may prevent it from being adopted.
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HugMonster
900 hours a year duty time.? I think it's 900 hours a year chock to chock, not including the other duties!
Oneworld22
You seem to be defending the ryans like they are the best thing since sliced bread. On paper they seem very successful, that can't be denied. I suspect that there is more to this than meets the eye. the real question of 900 hours in 12 months affects the whole industry because if they can fly more than 900 hours a year what hope is there for the rest of us. I would suspect that flying this amount is too much, everyone knows that 600 - 800 hours in 12 months is not unreasonable but where is the balance if you are flying every waking hour! how long can that be sustained.?
could you work 900 hours a year and more ?
900 hours a year duty time.? I think it's 900 hours a year chock to chock, not including the other duties!
Oneworld22
You seem to be defending the ryans like they are the best thing since sliced bread. On paper they seem very successful, that can't be denied. I suspect that there is more to this than meets the eye. the real question of 900 hours in 12 months affects the whole industry because if they can fly more than 900 hours a year what hope is there for the rest of us. I would suspect that flying this amount is too much, everyone knows that 600 - 800 hours in 12 months is not unreasonable but where is the balance if you are flying every waking hour! how long can that be sustained.?
could you work 900 hours a year and more ?
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Cathar,
Thanks for the EU webpages. At first sight it really doesn't look that bad to me, but it needs extensive reading to sink in. The 900 hrs. is possible but you need a computer the size of a building to get that out of a pilot, luckely. Let's see how the low fare operaters and (even worse) the Italian charters react to this.
Catzo, I canotte may ke nomore profito with all the piloti lazing aboute.
Thanks for the EU webpages. At first sight it really doesn't look that bad to me, but it needs extensive reading to sink in. The 900 hrs. is possible but you need a computer the size of a building to get that out of a pilot, luckely. Let's see how the low fare operaters and (even worse) the Italian charters react to this.
Catzo, I canotte may ke nomore profito with all the piloti lazing aboute.
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Just chilled out , me and my colleages did make 1000+ for more than a decade. Those who're on the regional route couldn't reach that limit but they're had less than 8 days off a month and there're hardly found the 2+consecutive days off on their schedules. My 12 months logged was 1150 hrs.
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ryanair 900hrs
ryanair pilots are doing more than 900hrs a year i know five who have done 1030 in ten months. even if you zero all the hours you will still have done 900hrs plus in the last 12 months which the fci put out by fr does not say
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Huggy,
I'm afraid you're not correct in saying only 900 hrs in 365 days. That does not happen even in UK's CAP 371. It's max 900 hrs in any 12 month period and if you read 371 you'll see it refers to a pilot not being allowed to operate if he or she is over 900 hrs at the end of the previous MONTH.
That means that the operator has to calculate the pilots hours only at the end of each month and not at the end of each day. So, theoretically at least, it is possible to be over 900 hrs in a rolling 365 day period even under UK rules and still be legal. I know that this is not the spirit of CAP 371 but when did the airlines ever care about the spirit? Dont hold you breath about JAA FTDT regs. Even if they surface they'll be overtaken by the new EASA and that will put the issue back by another 3 or 4 years.
Maybe I'm just cynical but I can see no EU-wide agreement on FTDT for years and years. And if something is miraculously agreed some operator will take an issue to the EU court and you know how long that takes. Dont hold your breath - you'll probably be retired by the time anything worthwhile actually is put in place.
I'm afraid you're not correct in saying only 900 hrs in 365 days. That does not happen even in UK's CAP 371. It's max 900 hrs in any 12 month period and if you read 371 you'll see it refers to a pilot not being allowed to operate if he or she is over 900 hrs at the end of the previous MONTH.
That means that the operator has to calculate the pilots hours only at the end of each month and not at the end of each day. So, theoretically at least, it is possible to be over 900 hrs in a rolling 365 day period even under UK rules and still be legal. I know that this is not the spirit of CAP 371 but when did the airlines ever care about the spirit? Dont hold you breath about JAA FTDT regs. Even if they surface they'll be overtaken by the new EASA and that will put the issue back by another 3 or 4 years.
Maybe I'm just cynical but I can see no EU-wide agreement on FTDT for years and years. And if something is miraculously agreed some operator will take an issue to the EU court and you know how long that takes. Dont hold your breath - you'll probably be retired by the time anything worthwhile actually is put in place.
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So basically then, if you have flown 900 hrs in 9 months then you must have the next 3 months off, end of story .
You then fly month 13 14 & 15 ( 300 hrs ) and then must have another 3 months off, coz you have still reached your 900 hr point in 12 months again.
Does this continue ad-infiniteum or untill the management wise up ?
After your first year of hell, then 3 months on, 3 months off sounds like a fine plan, who needs leave with all that time off !
You then fly month 13 14 & 15 ( 300 hrs ) and then must have another 3 months off, coz you have still reached your 900 hr point in 12 months again.
Does this continue ad-infiniteum or untill the management wise up ?
After your first year of hell, then 3 months on, 3 months off sounds like a fine plan, who needs leave with all that time off !
Last edited by Smokie; 24th Jul 2002 at 21:11.
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Smokie
What operator will give there pilots 3 months off because of a 900 hours limit. If they zero the hours then at some point all that hard work that you have done in the previous months will count for nothing, and you'll start the slog all over again. It all sounds like an excuse to work pilots to breaking point.
Maybe i've got it wrong.....have I ?
What operator will give there pilots 3 months off because of a 900 hours limit. If they zero the hours then at some point all that hard work that you have done in the previous months will count for nothing, and you'll start the slog all over again. It all sounds like an excuse to work pilots to breaking point.
Maybe i've got it wrong.....have I ?
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Brownstar, try reading the threads before posting. Where did I mention the Ryans ? I never discussed the Ryan family, what have they got to do with this discussion? The CEO is Michael O'Leary, he has the responsibility of running the company.
You also question their sucess? Do you know something that we don't, have their accounts been falsely inflated??? C'mon Brownstar spill the beans.
Of course you have no beans to spill, do you? just another guess and baseless accusation by a guy hiding behind a computer screen. It just gets more pathetic here day by day....
You also question their sucess? Do you know something that we don't, have their accounts been falsely inflated??? C'mon Brownstar spill the beans.
Of course you have no beans to spill, do you? just another guess and baseless accusation by a guy hiding behind a computer screen. It just gets more pathetic here day by day....
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smokie,
Please explain your logic. The 900 hours is a rolling total, so when month 13 arrives you deduct the hours from the corresponding month the previous year. Are you MOL or just a rostering clerk who works for him?
Please explain your logic. The 900 hours is a rolling total, so when month 13 arrives you deduct the hours from the corresponding month the previous year. Are you MOL or just a rostering clerk who works for him?
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OneWorld 22
Sorry your right, you never mentioned the ryans. The term i should have used was ryanair. As for your mentioning the IAA as being ready to pounce on ryanair if they they can ( sorry if i didn't quote you word for word ) well, anyone who has any dealings with the IAA would be able to comment on this. Is this the case?
i would have thought that the fact there is so much discussion on this subject would warrant an investigation of the facts by a regulatory body, or at least a dismisal of the rumour
Are pilots at ryanair flying more than 900 hours a year?
Is it legal?
if it is will it be adopted by other Authorities?
can anyone answer these questions
Sorry your right, you never mentioned the ryans. The term i should have used was ryanair. As for your mentioning the IAA as being ready to pounce on ryanair if they they can ( sorry if i didn't quote you word for word ) well, anyone who has any dealings with the IAA would be able to comment on this. Is this the case?
i would have thought that the fact there is so much discussion on this subject would warrant an investigation of the facts by a regulatory body, or at least a dismisal of the rumour
Are pilots at ryanair flying more than 900 hours a year?
Is it legal?
if it is will it be adopted by other Authorities?
can anyone answer these questions