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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 25th Apr 2014, 16:28
  #10181 (permalink)  
 
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What _is_ obvious from this is that the ULBs should be encoded somehow so that there is no doubt what is being heard is a particular aircraft. This is not difficult it could be a modulation or a pattern of pings - that would prevent all these rumors and doubts.
Why? How many active ULBs do you imagine there are under the sea at any particular time? I don't imagine the searchers are in any doubt about which aircraft they would belong to, and nor are they particularly troubled by the rumours and doubts of keyboard warriors on the internet.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 16:47
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If only = Deployable Recorders

Quote:

Surely there is a now a case to fit the FDRs and CVRs higher in the tail or rear bullet of ETOPS and LROPS over water flights that go outside radar coverage. They could be barostatically detached at a specified depth under water and fitted with a hi-vis, flotation device that has a solar-powered ELT. Regardless of cost this must surely be designable to avoid the anguish of the relatives after such an event.

US Navy have been using Deployable Recorders manufactured by DRS since 1993 - they are excellent, usually survive and are found quickly despite the momentum with which an F18 can crash and also put out an ELT signal to the satellites as soon as they deploy.
Efforts continue to get ICAO to mandate them as the second recorder and I think we could see them by 2018 or 2020. SARPS grind slowly but 370 will help.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 16:53
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Originally Posted by HeavyMetallist
Why? How many active ULBs do you imagine there are under the sea at any particular time? I don't imagine the searchers are in any doubt about which aircraft they would belong to, and nor are they particularly troubled by the rumours and doubts of keyboard warriors on the internet.
The searchers were the ones that expressed doubts, had searchers go to the initial 'Chinese' report area etc. A very low cost option adding an ID.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 18:18
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HMS Tireless stands down...
The commanding officer of HMS Tireless, Commander R Hywel Griffiths, said:

I am proud of the part HMS Tireless has played in the operation to find MH370. The only submarine participating, Tireless, with her advanced underwater search capability, is ideally suited to this challenging task.

Overcoming some of the most inhospitable sea conditions ever experienced by my crew, we searched 7,000 square nautical miles in a 16-day period.

I am also very proud of the professionalism and enthusiasm of my ship’s company. My highly trained and experienced young team of sonar operators were key to this operation, supported by the steadfast commitment of the remainder of my team, some in their very first months at sea.
Makes me wonder again why the Chinese with a handheld hydrophone claimed to have picked up the acoustic ping...?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 19:00
  #10185 (permalink)  
 
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Deployable Recorders

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Surely there is a now a case to fit the FDRs and CVRs higher in the tail or rear bullet of ETOPS and LROPS over water flights that go outside radar coverage. They could be barostatically detached at a specified depth under water and fitted with a hi-vis, flotation device that has a solar-powered ELT. Regardless of cost this must surely be designable to avoid the anguish of the relatives after such an event.

CNN ran a piece about 4 weeks ago regarding an existing design. During the discussion, they quoted an installed cost of $100,000 to retrofit one plane. They went on to say the cost was minimal compared to the $1,000,000/plane cost to install Wi-Fi.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 20:29
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Originally Posted by OPENDOOR
Makes me wonder again why the Chinese with a handheld hydrophone claimed to have picked up the acoustic ping...?
For a few days after this was first reported, the media videos not only showed the chap hanging the hydrophone over the side of the boat then showing a display window with 37.5 kHz, but also another operator behind him holding a transmitter clearly labelled 37.5 kHz. Maybe they were recording themselves ?!? Later media coverage shortened the video clip to omit this.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 21:04
  #10187 (permalink)  
 
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Makes me wonder again why the Chinese with a handheld hydrophone claimed to have picked up the acoustic ping...?
Propaganda. Propaganda. Propaganda.

The great clumsy, clunky great people's blundering mastodon always has to prove it's superiority over the decadent West.

Thus they find "evidence" with an am dram $15 mike where the decadent West couldn't manage it with all the military resources of a dozen nations.

Superiority of the great people's dictatorship proven. QED.

Naiive, isn't it? Scary too, that they believe we'd swallow that level of idiocy as thy expect their own domestic drones to do...
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 21:20
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CNN ran a piece about 4 weeks ago regarding an existing design. During the discussion, they quoted an installed cost of $100,000 to retrofit one plane. They went on to say the cost was minimal compared to the $1,000,000/plane cost to install Wi-Fi.
100,000 was to retrofit a cloud streaming black box, which have already been designed and are in service, not for detachable black boxes. Detachable black boxes would be much more (structural changes, test, cert, etc), not to mention the host of new failure modes it would introduce (can't wait to run over one of those fod's on the runway....)
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 05:19
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Originally Posted by OPENDOOR
Makes me wonder again why the Chinese with a handheld hydrophone claimed to have picked up the acoustic ping...?
As nothing of interest has been found in the current search area, the Chinese location is where I'd be deploying the Bluefin next.
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 05:59
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As nothing of interest has been found in the current search area, the Chinese location is where I'd be deploying the Bluefin next.
Fortunately, cooler, more experienced heads will be making that decision.

AF447 took almost 2 years to locate, mainly because they were searching the area at some distance from the LKP. Finally they got some of the best minds and searched near the LKP and found it in short order.

In the case of MH370, they indicated that they had two different pingers in part of the search zone if I recall correctly. That means they were darn close. These things take patience and perseverance.
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 06:27
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Mahatir blames Boeing for the "loss" of MH370

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/m...-disappearance

Last edited by Innaflap; 26th Apr 2014 at 06:30. Reason: URL was mangled
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 06:48
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MH370, Inmarsat: The fuzzy math behind the search for the missing airliner.
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 06:57
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Looks like Dr. M has spent too long reading PPRuNe ....
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 07:15
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'To add my take, I would also add that if it the mission was completely unsuccessful it may be expected that there would be some expression of regret which was not present in the statement.'


I wonder if it is simply not within their remit to express regret or any other sentiment regarding the success or otherwise of the exercise.


That would be for the JACC surely?
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 07:16
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Interview on HMS Tireless' role

BBC News - Royal Navy withdraws HMS Tireless from search for MH370
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 07:27
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Squarecrow

I have very few politicians that I have ever admired and he is no exception.

The Malaysian government has not done MAS any favours throughout this ordeal and politicians looking for sound bites has, on occasion, been quite repulsive.

In the government's unseemly rush to get involved in the MH370 incident it has managed to encake itself in the brown stuff and this rather backfired on them.

Blaming Boeing for having equipment that can be isolated is like blaming a car manufacturer for having a light switch or a fuse box.
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 08:12
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Dr MAHATHIR, formerfirst Minister of Malaysia, should read or reread ICAO Annex 17. That text applies in case of criminal action against air security, which Dr MAHATHIR says it should be the case in MH370.
Annex 17 says, in that case, the responsibility belongs to the arline - MAS - and the State - Malaysia Dr MAHATHIR is the head from -, not the manufacturer Boeing

Last edited by roulishollandais; 27th Apr 2014 at 21:56. Reason: add "-" , red add "former"
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 08:46
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'That text applies in case of criminal action against air security' would imply that the Malaysian government is aware that some sort of terrorist or criminal act was committed.


The question is (still) how they are aware of this. I don't think we are any further on in this.
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 09:58
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as far as i can tell the 'criminal' investigation was only fired up when they wanted to start accessing things like the pilots homes and other records.
they needed the power to increase their investigative avenues.

it has nothing to do with their suspicion of a criminal act involving the disappearance of the flight

so all those hanging their theories on the word 'criminal' can give it a rest
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Old 26th Apr 2014, 10:28
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I wonder if it is simply not within their remit to express regret or any other sentiment regarding the success or otherwise of the exercise.


That would be for the JACC surely?
I agree completely. They were tasked. They carried out the mission. The boss was proud. Job done for that asset.
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