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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 26th Mar 2014, 11:55
  #8181 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by nigf
I wonder if God forbid one of the SAR crafts ditches due to some failure how the heck will they be rescued ?
Whilst this would indeed be a dreadful event, it would actually be a most propitious time to ditch.

There are lots of other SAR aircraft on the route. In the search area thee are specialist ships.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 11:55
  #8182 (permalink)  
 
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As far as I am aware (B747 Tech in a past life) the APU and engine fire bottles are the same size.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:04
  #8183 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Speed of Sound
One thing which nobody seems to have mentioned so far is the possible use of onboard images and audio recorded on passenger and crew mobile phones in any investigation.

it is very likely that audio and video recordings exist on the 200+ mobile phones on board at the time.
There was a case about 3 years ago, a Spanish fisherman recovered a camera that had been lost in the Atlantic some months before. The camera was ruined but the images on the SD Card enabled the owner to be traced. SD Cards are solid so water pressure us unlikely to be a factor and that one had survived immersion in salt water.

Good call.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:07
  #8184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jimster99
A water spill like the QF2 747 water spill would have initially caused numerous problems. You can easily imagine the pilots rerouting to Langkawi. But why wouldn't they transmit a mayday? Maybe they were too busy flying and fault diagnosing? Seems unlikely (but not impossible - after all, the 747 water spill crew didn't declare a mayday either).
Who says they were trying to divert to Langkawi? Some contributors to this thread have tried to suggest this, but all of their theories were purely speculative and were pretty much debunked.

If, as you suggest, they were still able to fly the aircraft, then it’s far more likely that if they had a problem then they would have attempted to return to KLIA (which, unlike Langkawi, operates around the clock). And I simply can’t believe that they wouldn’t have communicated their intentions. Even the ill fated Swissair 111 was in contact with ATC before it’s demise.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:16
  #8185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jimster99
Ventus - your water spill theory sounds possible, with reservations.

A water spill like the QF2 747 water spill would have initially caused numerous problems. You can easily imagine the pilots rerouting to Langkawi. But why wouldn't they transmit a mayday? Maybe they were too busy flying and fault diagnosing? Seems unlikely (but not impossible - after all, the 747 water spill crew didn't declare a mayday either).

Anyway, after 30 minutes the plane battery runs out and they lose all communication and navigation and many other critical systems. At this point they cannot tell anyone what is happening and they would be flying blind in a crippled plane at night with only basic flight controls. At this point they are in real trouble.

It does seem possible that in this scenario (especially if its cloudy) they get disoriented or accidentally induce a turn, and head south, with occasional changes in altitude and direction, hoping to find a runway somewhere. Their situation would get worse and worse, and eventually they run out of fuel and get forced to ditch. But would they really end up getting THAT lost?
Even after 30 mins, the aircraft can continue flying and they still have a good old reliable standby magnetic "Spirit" compass.

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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:25
  #8186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lost in Saigon
Even after 30 mins, the aircraft can continue flying and they still have a good old reliable standby magnetic "Spirit" compass.
What about a horizon? Would be messy without one at night?
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:29
  #8187 (permalink)  
 
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Use of a PC secure deletion tool being a "red flag": That would be an old policeman's attitude
I work for the bad guys' defence teams. Drug dealers, paedophiles etc. If I see a deletion tool in use I know they are up to no good.

I'm definitely no cop nor have I ever been. I just know what's normal and not normal.

Getting on topic. If a deletion tool has been used then there are very grave suspicions about the user. Let's wait and see what is revealed in subsequent investigations.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:29
  #8188 (permalink)  
 
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Every time a terror act happened somewhere the US noticed an increase in telephon "traffic" in certain areas.We`ve heard anything yet,of course thy don`t have to tell us,buit i think it`s possible something would have been leaked already.
Don`t saying it was no technical faillure,but i thonk one should really take a closer look at the state of mind of the ctp after his wife left him.For some people it could have an devasting effect.

About the possible try to go back to KUL,i´ve have thougt,they would have waited til dawn,fuel was enough,maybe not a good idea to arrive therein the middle of the night with no means for comms.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:35
  #8189 (permalink)  
 
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In the press briefing diagram giving Lat/Long coordinates, why do they publish them with Long first then Lat ?

Google Earth and Google Maps do the same thing. Its a geospatial convention.
GE takes either. In the example for the GE search box, Lat comes first. I've never heard of Longitude being given before Latitude, certainly not in aviation applications.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:40
  #8190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sandos
What about a horizon? Would be messy without one at night?
The aircraft flew for over 7 hours so it was either on autopilot, or it wasn't too "messy".
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:40
  #8191 (permalink)  
 
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Fire suppression bottle.

[Notice the way it's strapped]


And compare to the marks on these two other photos of the object that washed ashore :





The article these photos come from :

vnews - An object suspected to be an explosive washes into Baarah

"Maldives Police Services (MPS) reported that reports of such an object were filed with the department yesterday evening around 5.30 pm and that Maldives National Defense Force (MNDF) had taken in the object.

MNDF Spokesperson Major Hussain Ali said that the object is an explosive and the MNDF Northern Area team is active in the area."



My only question is : what amount of BS are we willing to eat in the name of "security" ?

As Benjamin Franklin said : "Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
And i'm pretty sure that the right to be told the truth is included in freedom.

Big words put aside, i see 239 other good reasons to demand that officials stop treating us as idiotic children. Shame on the mass media for not even have begun to try that.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:47
  #8192 (permalink)  
 
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Question Comms

Maybe they transmitted but no-one heard ?
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:55
  #8193 (permalink)  
 
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Innocent use of a deletion tool.

Mahatma

If a deletion tool has been used then there are very grave suspicions about the user.
I'm sure there are plenty of people using deletion tools for completely innocent purposes.

A friend of mine who works in the AV world uses one all the time. He has SD cards to record SD and HD video. After each show he archives the material from 6 or 7 cameras to his hard drives. If he uses a brand new 32Gb flash memory card he can record about 31.5Gb of HD video onto it but when he archives it, deletes the files and puts the card back in the camera, he can only record 29.3Gb of HD video onto the card.*

I'm sure we have all at some point tried to write a 7.2 Gb file onto a 8GB USB drive only to be greeted by an 'insufficient space' message. Despite checking that everything has been erased then trying to rewrite the file, it won't have it even though you wrote a 7.9Gb file to the same pen drive two days ago when it was new.

*Data figure are purely for illustrative purposes only.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 12:58
  #8194 (permalink)  
 
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Search and Rescue

bono
No Debris Sightings Today-Where Is The Debris?
Final aircraft has left the #MH370 search area. Nothing further identified after initial sighting of three objects.

https://twitter.com/AMSA_News/status/448788733593018368


So where is the debris? It will make sense at this stage to make an educated guess regarding the aircraft's crash position using Inmarsat data and send in a few ROVs to the ocean floor. This preoccupation with locating debris as marker for crash location in the roaring 40s is looking less and less fruitful.
Bono good call


Search and Rescue
I've done it for 10+ hours in the North Sea North of Scotland looking for a missing yacht. Nothing seen
I've done it looking for downed flight crew in different parts of the world flying from a carrier. Nothing seen.
I've been in the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea in post cyclonic seas and even on an aircraft carrier it was less than pleasant

SAR is a monotonous, puke making and potentially thankless task. Add the weather in the southern Indian Ocean, the shortening days as winter approaches and you have a monumentally difficult task.
Don't expect instant results
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 13:09
  #8195 (permalink)  
 
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It will make sense at this stage to make an educated guess regarding the aircraft's crash position using Inmarsat data and send in a few ROVs to the ocean floor. This preoccupation with locating debris as marker for crash location in the roaring 40s is looking less and less fruitful.
Tedious as it may be, locating the wreckage through floating debris then backtracking to the crash site is still going to be the quickest way. Anything else is just a guess.

All Inmarsat data can do is take us down 90% of the track south. That final 10% which can't be predicted by hard data represents a hell of a lot of ocean.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 13:10
  #8196 (permalink)  
 
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@ pace

"The most likely for me is still a massive depressurisation caused by a fire with the fire extinguishing with the depressurisation and messed up communication and navigation!"

i thought that the possibility of fire had been debunked on more than one occasion in this thread by those with a pretty authoritative knowledge?
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 13:19
  #8197 (permalink)  
 
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Drone usage in search area.

Given the specialised equipment fitted to drones;

Would ship launched or land based controlled long range drones not have a useful part to play in searching for debris, once in the area they could stay on station far longer time than any MPA.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 13:26
  #8198 (permalink)  
 
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@LFRT

Looks to be evidence of of burning...is this some kind of fake ? Maldives ? I thought we were long past the idea of an area anywhere near the Maldives!?

There has to be a serial number on that thing somehwere....hope it can be rule in/out asap.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 13:26
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Secure deletion

I fear the Mahatma's profession may have induced a suspicious default state of mind. For many years, both personally and professionally, I've used a readily available simple utility to periodically securely delete cached data.

I have a couple of reasons, neither of which implies mischief. One, cached data is a great way to introduce malware which can evade AV applications at boot-time - or at least before the OS and utilities are fully up and running - and secondly to free up space, particularly where it's limited by the currently quite small SSDs in general use.

I've also installed this on many other people's PCs where I know their understanding of security issues are very limited and taught them to run it before shutting down. No point in leaving, for example, cached email addresses, passwords etc lurking about. PCs get stolen too. Obviously this procedure isn't bullet-proof however the use of these utilities is, in my experience, far from being automatic evidence of illegal behaviour.
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Old 26th Mar 2014, 13:47
  #8200 (permalink)  
 
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The most likely for me is still a massive depressurisation caused by a fire with the fire extinguishing with the depressurisation and messed up communication and navigation!
I agree - read the report on the Egypt Air MS667 772 cockpit fire, which happened on the ground in 2011. The fire was so sudden and spread so fast that the co-pilot had to immediately vacate his seat, and captain could not extinguish the fire with the cockpit fire-extinguisher(s). The cockpit was immediately filled with smoke, and the fuselage was badly holed.

http://wfol.tv/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Egyptair.jpg

If all that happened in flight, the captain might just have had time to disconnect the AP and turn the aircraft to a haven before being overcome by fire & smoke. If the aircraft then flew on completely unguided it might have developed large phugoid oscillations which would account for the large changes in altitude reported from some sources.

After MS667 Boeing mandated modifications to the co-pilot oxygen system which had probably caused this fire. Does anybody know if the MH370 aircraft had received this modification?
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