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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 16th Apr 2014, 17:05
  #9941 (permalink)  
 
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Reliable Sources requested

The most obvious one is JACC

Media
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 18:47
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Had you thought of giving AVM Houston a call and offering your nuggets of wisdom?
I designed part of the Bluefin 21 guidance system.

I also designed one for telecommunication cable mapping with a sidescan, mag, and sub-bottom profiler.

We do this stuff everyday, not once a decade when they lose an aircraft.

Last edited by underfire; 16th Apr 2014 at 19:32.
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 20:26
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Originally Posted by Ornis
AF447 transmitted Acars - including position - to the satellite, MH370 didn't, its Acars were VHF only and that function was disabled.

It's probably the first time possible positions have been calculated using the timings of the handshake - which were for the satellite telephone only.
Concisely put. I hope your post survives.
Originally Posted by Tfor2
This will never happen again.
Uh, right. "Never happen again" is nice bloviation, not so much on reality.
Granted, this is a novel occurrence, albeit tragic.

Considering the size of the search area, I think some folks are getting impatient, without good reason, over the search and its results.
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 20:28
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Here is the news extract from Bluefins operators.

"In Quincy, Mass., near the city's historic shipyard, one of the world's most innovative deep-sea explorers is being but to the test. Called the Bluefin-21, the submersible vehicle can descend two-and-a-half miles below the ocean's surface to some of the most inhospitable places on the planet.
David Kelly, chief executive officer of Bluefin Robotics - a company that specializes in deep sea exploration - said, "The temperature's about slightly above freezing; it's pitch black. The pressure there is the equivalent of having a Cadillac Escalade balanced on your thumbnail."
One of the Bluefin's submersibles, owned by a U.S. Navy defense contractor, is now aboard the Australian vessel Ocean Shield in the southern Indian Ocean.
Now that a signal has been received, the torpedo-like craft will be soon be put to work. It will scour an area the size of Texas at a rate of 40 square miles each day.
Kelly explained, "Down there, it'll run what's called a lawnmower pattern. It's just like mowing the lawn at your house."
On each "mission," the craft uses sonar technology to scan the ocean floor. Those sounds create images that researchers analyze when the craft resurfaces once every 24 hours."

And here is my simple arithmetic.

Texas has a surface area of 268,820 sq.m , divide this with 40 and the result is 6720 days, give or take a few, how many years is that? All assuming it is beavering away around the clock every day and no down time for maintenance, technical hitch or weather, of course. Now that to me sounds just a touch too much "lawnmowing".
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 20:34
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Originally Posted by underfire
We do this stuff everyday, not once a decade when they lose an aircraft.
Being in the business, you would certainly know of Phoenix International, the civilian contractor for the USN. Any comments on their capabilities?

Last edited by rampstriker; 16th Apr 2014 at 20:49. Reason: url issues
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 21:04
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The second Bluefin 21 snag was due to low oil in one of the batteries - I believe this is to prevent collapse under the extreme pressure b ut that's conjecture on my part.
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 21:19
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The BF 21 is the civilian version, which is why PHI is involved.

The capabilites of PHI speak for themselves.

EDIT: Due to the depth, all of the systems on the fish are oil filled, replacing any air.
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 23:24
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Some cause for optimism

According to wreck hunter David Mearns, Searchers have pinpointed Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 crash site.

Not official, of course, but at least a view from someone with some experience in the field. It is, perhaps, some cause for optimism - to the extent that you can be optimistic about finding 239 dead people and a wrecked aircraft.
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Old 16th Apr 2014, 23:30
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I don't think there is anything new here except of the boastful title, the guy is making a fairly stretched claim that since they had 4 strong "transmissions" they "pinpointed" the crash site. Even if such claim is warranted, we knew this over a week ago. Frankly at this point - only a solid sonar (or other) picture would justify such loft claims.
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 00:31
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Not sure if this has been posted before.

"Authorities in Perth are testing an oil sample collected from the search zone of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane."

So we are likely to know by the end of Easter if it is from the aircraft.
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 00:42
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Search and recovery continues for Malaysian flight MH370

Media Release
17 April 2014—am
Up to ten military aircraft, two civil aircraft and 11 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.
Today the Australian Maritime Safety Authority has planned a visual search area totalling approximately 40,349 square kilometres. The centre of the search areas lies approximately 2,170 kilometres north west of Perth.
Overnight Bluefin-21 AUV completed a full mission in the search area and is currently planning for its next mission. Bluefin-21 has searched approximately 90 square kilometres to date and the data from its latest mission is being analysed.
The oil sample collected by Ocean Shield has now arrived in Perth and will be subject to detailed testing and analysis. We will provide details of the results when they become available.
The weather forecast for today is isolated showers and south easterly winds.
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 02:17
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As pointed out above, it is linear.
The density of seawater is a nonlinear function of salinity, temperature, and pressure.
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 03:09
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Density, pressure

The density of seawater is a nonlinear function of salinity, temperature, and pressure.
For the purposes of estimating safe pressures, the density of sea water is virtually constant (variation ~1%), and thus the pressure is mostly linear with depth.

The small variations in density in the ocean are significant in ocean mass flows (such as thermo-haline circulations) and in sound propagation.
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 03:58
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Our PM says we have a week and then it will be pull back, re group
and have a think about what to do next.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 search rethink within a week, says Prime Minister Tony Abbott | News.com.au
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 06:31
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According to the founder of IGHAR, the Bluefin-21 is an unreliable item of equipment and the Aussies are better advised to find something more reliable and more capable, to use in the search.
The simple fact that it's being used in waters that could be 6000M deep, when its effective safe operating depth is 4500M, seems to indicate to me that it's a no-brainer to go find some other ROV with much better depth capabilities.

Plane search rethink 'within a week' | Sky News Australia
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 08:28
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Third mission

After the two previous failures, the third search mission by Bluefin 21 was successfully completed.

No results as yet.




Robot submarine makes first complete search for MH370 - The Times of India
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 10:00
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Bluefin or ...

Whether Bluefin-21 is reliable, unreliable or whether there are better assets out there ...

I'm sure JACC has been talking to anyone and everyone with an ROV capable of going south of 4500m but these things cost lots of money and have to earn their keep and aren't just sitting around waiting for an interesting looking task to get stuck into.
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 12:00
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Update on search for flight MH370

Media Release
17 April 2014—pm
At the recent media conference conducted by the Chief Coordinator of the Joint Agency Coordination Centre, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston (Ret'd), said that the Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield had detected an oil slick on Sunday evening in her current search area.
Preliminary analysis of the sample collected by ADV Ocean Shield has confirmed that it is not aircraft engine oil or hydraulic fluid.
Additionally, Phoenix International, with the assistance of Bluefin, have assessed that there is a small but acceptable level of risk in operating the vehicle in depths in excess of 4,500 metres. This expansion of the operating parameters allows the Bluefin-21 to search the sea floor within the predicted limits of the current search area.
Some media reports today state that it would take Bluefin-21 anywhere from six weeks to two months to scan the entire underwater search area. This is incorrect.
Since the US Navy provided comment some days ago, the underwater search has been significantly narrowed through detailed acoustic analysis conducted on the four signal detections made by the Towed Pinger Locator on ADV Ocean Shield.
This analysis has allowed the definition of a reduced and more focused underwater search area. This represents the best lead we have in relation to missing flight MH370 and where the current underwater search efforts are being pursued to their completion so we can either confirm or discount the area as the final resting place of MH370.
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 13:22
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Sorry if this has been addressed before, but I have followed these pages hourly and I haven't been able to find more details regarding this recently made statement.

"Since the US Navy provided comment some days ago, the underwater search has been significantly narrowed through detailed acoustic analysis conducted on the four signal detections made by the Towed Pinger Locator on ADV Ocean Shield.
This analysis has allowed the definition of a reduced and more focused underwater search area. This represents the best lead we have in relation to missing flight MH370 and where the current underwater search efforts are being pursued to their completion so we can either confirm or discount the area as the final resting place of MH370."

I just want to understand what new analysis has led to the statement released and now why has the underwater search been "significantly narrowed" and has resulted in a "reduced and more focused underwater search area".

Is this confirmation that "this detailed acoustic analysis" indicates a more sophisticated method has managed to triangulate to a more accurate position to be searched?

I certainly hope so....

No doubt this post will be deleted, judging by history
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Old 17th Apr 2014, 14:03
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OleOle . . .

Thirty days have passed, no preliminary report yet. The AF447 preliminary report was available after 31 days. Does anybody know if the investigators are free to discard this requirement for a preliminary report ?

ICAO only promulgates international standards and recommended practices; can neither make nor enforce "laws." Compliance rests with individual states.
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