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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 15th Apr 2014, 02:14
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Angus Houston said in the press conf yesterday that plans were a foot in regards to other options / vehicles. That was in response to a journos question.

He - and others - have been in the game long enough that they would have been looking at these types of things way out ahead as part of contingency planning, which isn't surprising considering his and others military backgrounds.

They won't we resting and waiting until they need it.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 02:31
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Now it's official

China’s Efforts in Hunt for Plane Are Seen as Hurting More Than Helping



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/wo...ping.html?_r=0
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 03:07
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Redlands
Echo

Why was 'She' not deployed in the area of ping's detected by Ocean, until after the CVR/FDR batteries presumably expired?
Apparently to search the now discounted Hua Xian 01 audio contacts over a week ago. Which in hindsight is now unfortunate. But it had to be investigated! SAR is not a precise Science.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 03:28
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That is a big swipe from the NY Times, a big swipe.

Even if it is true, sometimes you wonder whether things are better left unsaid, at least until it is all over.

Putting egg all over the Chinese faces is not going to help, just like the
Chinese might have not helped.

Angus is much more diplomatic in his press conferences, even if behind the scenes he has had a few words.

Just my HO.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 03:53
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Helpful or not

Thought the NYT piece was fairly well-tempered. And the fact is that the PRC cannot have it both ways - that is, the country cannot launch a significant effort within the overall SAR activity, but then claim immunity from being held accountable for its efforts. Or to claim any impropriety in those accounts being taken by responsible members of the SAR activity (or of the larger world civil aeronautics establishment).

Notice the careful structure of the Annex 13 (ICAO) investigatory effort detailed by the Malaysians on April 5 and 7....with proper assignations of Accredited Representatives (among other things). One wonders to what extent China's efforts in the SAR activity were likewise aligned with ICAO terms and procedures? Were its satellite imagery releases more like free-lancing or were they consistent with its later-designated Accredited Representative role? Same question, relative to its acoustic searches (or the 'reasonable facsimile thereof' depicted photographically in the small boat).

The team effort of the SAR activity perhaps is a highly Westernized undertaking. Viewed from that perspective, the NYT article is mild stuff.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 04:18
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Diplomacy and the way the interact with various agency across multiple nationalities is a fact of life. The same with releasing various facts and not others, whilst there is investigations going on.

Regardless of what we like to think as individuals of what our rights actually are or morally should be, in the real world its usually far different.

At the end of the day the Authority's running the SAR will be doing the best that they can under what constraints they have.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 04:21
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"Might be quite a show to see Angus Houston deliver crisp, and crisply appropriate, responses to the questions of Members of Congress, regarding the challenges of the SAR mission...."


Based on his previous testimony before committees, it would be very interesting

I doubt he would pull any punches.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 04:36
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FWIW, I am posting this from Shanghai. The NYT article is "not available" i.e. the Great Firewall of China is blocking it. The PLA Navy has acquired a good reputation for efficient co-operation with NATO Navies in anti-piracy operations.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 05:15
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FWIW Hai Xun 01 has slipped around to Albany on South Coast - due in port later this afternoon.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 08:23
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The PLA Navy has acquired a good reputation for efficient co-operation with NATO Navies in anti-piracy operations.
The PLA Navy have acquired a reputation for decisive and effective action, unencumbered by the hand wringing, legalistic BS that has hamstrung Western responses to piracy. Co-operation however, remains an elusive concept and that is amply illustrated by their various gaffes in the current search.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 08:48
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GEOMAR in Germany have been readying their Abyss AUV which is good for 6000m, but I haven't heard any report yet about them being requested...
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 09:51
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Data from first foray of Bluefin analysed but no objects of interest found.

Search for MH370: first Bluefin-21 underwater search finds nothing
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 10:24
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I am surprised the Australians are deploying only a single Bluefin21 submarine for the first part of the underwater search. Is it really too expensive or logistically difficult to have two running simultaneously for double the coverage?
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 10:53
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Australia doesn't own the Bluefin. Neither it seems does the US Navy. They lease it from these guys according to this document. Info from the Bluefin website here.

Interesting how they do the navigation. GPS until they go under the water then an inertial navigation system. I was wondering how they would cope with no GPS underwater.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 11:47
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The Oil Slick

I assume the sample has to be taken ashore to be analysed?

How will this be achieved? I don't think any vessel other than Exho has been close to OS, unless any other of the ships close enough has a helo aboard.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 12:09
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>I assume the sample has to be taken ashore to be analysed?

How will this be achieved<

HMAS Toowoomba has been close to the search area and is now making 23 knots towards Perth. I imagine its change of course and hanging about the area was to await transfer of the oil sample by a tender from HMS Echo.

>23 knots towards Perth.<

Exmouth now, it seems. Has slowed down now. Is the weather cutting up rough?

Last edited by Saga Noren; 15th Apr 2014 at 20:44.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 13:11
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What is the goal here?

Is it to find the wreck? No. It is to show the families of the victims, and the rest of the world, that they are trying. This will go on until the money runs out, or time fades the will. There's no real proof yet that the thing is even there. And walking speed is unlikely to complete the desired course.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 13:32
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@ Tfor2 : Certainly the SAR is partly for the sake of the relatives, but the real importance of finding the wreck and/or bodies is to do a thorough investigation of anything and everything recovered and try to decide the most likely causes of this awful incident. If they do ever learn what happened and how they will be better able to prevent it from happening again, and that benefits everyone.
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 13:59
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7th arc

From Houston Press Conf with Chinese medias ( Transcript of Press Conference with Chinese Media, 14 April 2014 ):
[If nothing is found in the area of detected pings] And that probably involves, if we take the Air France circumstances—that probably involves a very long, very painstaking sonar search of the floor of the ocean along the arc of the seventh ping. So that would take an extraordinary amount of time, would be very expensive but eventually, I would hope, it would yield information about what might have happened.
Would it imply that the last (partial) handshake with Inmarsat is now considered as the "in water" point? Has something been published about that?
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Old 15th Apr 2014, 14:12
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Did they establish just 'what' the partial ping consisted of ? I was under the impression that the 'normal' scheduled pings were the satellite sending out a query to the plane and measuring the time it took to get the response; that time corresponds to a distance (the circles). If the partial ping was initiated by the plane, did the satellite respond and get a further response from the plane? If it did that would seem to be MORE than a 'normal' ping (3 transmissions instead of 2); certainly not a 'partial' ping. What gives ?
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