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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:09   #7581 (permalink)
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awblain at 1525 posted: ...As to changing orbit - it can be done, but unless it's a pressing urgent life-threatening need, just wait for the orbit to come good.

You can increase or decrease the altitude of orbiting satellites if you are willing to burn precious & limited fuel supply, but changing directions is EXTREMELY limited. Orbiting objects don't make right angle turns.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:09   #7582 (permalink)
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I'll stick my neck out and hazard that the French have had a good long look through their satellite radar and seen something interesting. If the US (and maybe Russia and China?) can do the same with their views within a few hours of impact, then the mystery might be coming to an end.

And there's still time to catch the sonar beacons in time to have some power left.

Then again, Titanic was found in the end, with only approximate chronometer/sextant positions, so it's not forever hopeless if a ~ten mile position is known.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:10   #7583 (permalink)
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Ian W
You have to surmise a fire of Swissair 111 proportions and at the same time a fire that is not of Swissair 111 proportions. These are mutually exclusive states.
An oxymoron....pun unintended.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:38   #7584 (permalink)
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The southern Indian Ocean is a remote area with no major shipping lanes. Ships travel slowly so only ships which are already in the area will join the search. The nearest UK or USA ships were probably a thousand miles away.
A chinese ship happened to be in the area and joined the search.

Simple - Anyone nearby will offer help, everything else would take too long to get there.

I am confident that if the USA were asked to provide extra aircraft they would send some, maybe nobody asked.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:52   #7585 (permalink)
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Ghost phone

With an open mind to all possibilities, the skipper's call from a fraudulently-obtained phone story appears to be gathering momentum...
I think the media (and possibly the Malaysian government) are making too much of this. We know that Caprain Zaharie was somewhat politically outspoken; it stands to reason that some of his friends would be likewise. With a healthy amount of paranoia, an outspoken critic of the government may well prefer not to make it too easy for the government to listen in on their personal life. Bear in mind that Anwar himself has twice been imprisoned not for crimes against the state but for (alleged) aspects of his personal life.

I'm not suggesting that the Malaysian government is in any way complicit in the disappearance of MH370, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they found some way to leverage it for domestic political advantage. We have already seen attempts to link the incident to the good captain's political alignment.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 22:54   #7586 (permalink)
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Given the quality of the information that has made the current search area the current search area, a single P8 seems to be an appropriate commitment of resources from non-locals.

If and when there's definitely something to see, then a more substantial presence from the airframe and engine manufacturers could be justified.
A game of hunt the faint deep pinger would probably interest most well-equipped navies, with substantial kudos available to the winners; as well as the satisfaction of doing something very concrete for the safety of those millions that take to the air every day.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:12   #7587 (permalink)
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GarageYears said:
Yes, they do go into standby as soon as the code selector knobs or buttons are active. In the case of the keypad, it releases as soon as the 4th digit is entered, and the rotary has a 3-5 sec timeout.
If it had a digital keypad and someone started entering a new four digit code but did not complete the entry (became incapacitated or just distracted by a bigger problem) does the transponder time-out and go back to the old code or just sit there in standby waiting for the last digit which never comes??
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:17   #7588 (permalink)
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For the purpose of this exercise, it is reminded that pilots, a long long time ago at the beginning of their careers, learnt to not just input bearings in an electronic device but also to calculate them by hand (bearings /speeds /distance), in such a way that I would expect any of you pilots to still be able to do the calculations in a second without paper and pencil, possibly in a split second. Without getting into complicated trig, recall that you subtracted various angles, the most common of which are 90, 180, 270 and 360. In between, geometry remnants would kick some memories of angles such as 30, 45 and their complements.
That would be a wrong assumption.

First of all we don't enter bearings into the FMC. We enter airways or waypoints, that are contained in a verified database, into the FMC. Bearings are barely ever used!

The biggest concern in everyday life regarding angles is that you don't bust your crosswind limitations, and on 99% of days thats not a concern either.

Doing complicated raw data VOR radial intercepts, or even holdings is not something that is done regularly (nor trained regularly) in modern aviation (bar maybe a few companies).

Last edited by 737Jock; 23rd Mar 2014 at 23:30.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:23   #7589 (permalink)
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AUS dispatched Ocean Shield

AUS press reported this morning (Monday) that Ocean Shield, an offshore support vessel with an underwater ROV on board and normally based in Sydney has been dispatched.

Its got a way to go, just entering Bass Strait. This link shows her current position

Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions - AIS Marine Traffic
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:32   #7590 (permalink)
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Now the despatch of ROV operating ships indicates the commitment of real money, or at least an absence of other gainful work.

Sounds like evidence that's there's going to be something to find.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:45   #7591 (permalink)
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I see the Xue Long is in area already. Got there quick or left a while ago ....
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:48   #7592 (permalink)

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The other question is, what are the us going to send that would greatly enhance what is already here, considering they have already sent a P8.

Re the Ocean Shield, sounds like good forward planning to me.

We (as in Aust) have only had it a short while and specifically purchased for Disasters and disaster relief. Heaps of deck space, accommodation, a helipad and ROV, all very useful if they find anything and for taking items from other ships that pick wreckage up.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:49   #7593 (permalink)
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CO detection

Is it safe to assume a) CO couldn't enter cabin (either from known (ie. engines) or unknown (cargo hold fire) combustion sources) and, b) if CO were present, a/c are fitted with appropriate detectors?

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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:51   #7594 (permalink)

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I see the Xue Long is in area already. Got there quick or left a while ago ....

By coincidence, it was in port in Perth and restasked by China a few days ago to join in.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:53   #7595 (permalink)
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Isaircrafts the only means?
UK sent a ship; would that bethe only one available?
The US could nearlyblanket the area, but no
Some countries with the most technology are taking an armslength here.
Not customary.

Not by any means. The US cannot be everywhere at every time. If you have not noticed there is a kerfuffule in Crimea that may require US ( and for that matter UK) assets to be deployed as close as they can.

Yes HMS Echo is the only UK ship that can get to that area within a matter of days. Other RN ships could not get there within weeks. How fast do you think ships move?

The US have not provided satellite imagery because the Chinese can see exactly what they see.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:57   #7596 (permalink)
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Fair enough... if it's a ship dedicated to accident investigation rather than a commercial vessel, then that's not so indicative that there is yet any work for it to do.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:58   #7597 (permalink)
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AMSA press release this am

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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 23:59   #7598 (permalink)
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I can't see any way that CO could be present in the cabin. There are no detectors for it, because it isn't conceivable.
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 00:00   #7599 (permalink)
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CNN reports military radar tracked turn & descent fm FL 35

Now reported that military radar (whose?) showed MH370 making sharp turn & descending rapidly from 35k to 12k .
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Old 24th Mar 2014, 00:06   #7600 (permalink)
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I see the Xue Long is in area already. Got there quick or left a while ago ....
The Xue Long is an Antarctic Supply Vessel run by CHINARE - Chinese Antarctic Research Expeditions. It runs from Perth to Xongshan, which is on the Antarctic coast, roughly under the mid Indian Ocean. Around 71E from memory.
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acars, crash, elt, hf links, malaysian, mh370, missing, pingers, plane, vhf

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