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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:31
  #6081 (permalink)  
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Reversion to heading or track mode will occur
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:35
  #6082 (permalink)  
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Quote: All the theories
about emergency returns are negated by the fact that the FO made his 'laid back'
RTT response after the transponder was disabled and, now we are told,
after the left turn.

Can we verify this, if this is the case then that's quite significant.
Only if someone has a recording or transcript of the press conference - it was in the questions, not the minister's statement.

And I thought the sense of what the respondee said was the other way around from what is being implied here now. I.e. it was consistent with innocent action.

But it was a presser and I'm not positive what the exact question was either.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:35
  #6083 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by slats11 View Post
I don't know Hempy. I though I had read ages back that Vietnam saw them turn back to Malaysia, and they had told the Malaysians. I don't know if this means they told them in real time, or only later when everyone realised it had gone missing. Not sure anyone knows given the way so may things have been stated one day and then revised the next.

People here have said they heard HCM trying to contact them. I think also the other MH flight was asked to try to raise them.
I read they informed KL that they could not contact them and that radar indicated the plane had turned, my belief is the radar data was given just before or whilst the aircraft was transiting malaysia on it's new course.

Re trying to contact them a pilot has confirmed he heard them going bonkers trying to raise MH370 and asking another flight to do so.(think that was on 121.5
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:37
  #6084 (permalink)  
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Last waypoint...

The Track mode usually would get reset to heading mode.... so if their is a substantial difference the ac will turn and roll out... just Keeping it simple...
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:39
  #6085 (permalink)  
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Sharp end vs Blunt end

Sharp end (the pilots ) always easy to blame.... what a pity... esp since they aren't around to clarify.. blunt end (everything else) as always going scot free, namely the airline, management, Boeing etc...
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:44
  #6086 (permalink)  
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If the co-pilot was heard to say, "All right, good night." It begs the question, what frequency? VHF? HF? Satellite? If VHF this would automatically - by line of sight - narrow the search area. As a former AusSAR SSARO in Australia, I am confused by the staggering amount of disinformation. A sudden or slight loss of pressurisation or fire on board as outlined above makes more sense to me.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:44
  #6087 (permalink)  
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Ron Swanson said:
GTC58 said:
The B777 has a super critical wing, as such it is not really designed to have aerodynamic inherent stability. Without pilot inputs it doesn't take very long for the aircraft to depart its altitude and flight path in manual flight.
This is not true at all. The B777 is a fly by wire aircraft, the aircraft is flow by the primary flight computers (PFC) which interpret pilot inputs to the flying controls and the current flying conditions (speed, alt, configuration) and move the control surfaces as appropriate. If there is any inherent instability of the wing design it is irrelevant.

If the the auto pilot is switched off and the pilot makes no input on the flying controls the aircraft will continue to fly on roughly the same path as it was before the A/P disconnected.
So true. The wings are attached in the lateral axis (roll) with plenty of dihedral, which more or less will force wings level in the absence of control inputs. Along the longitudinal axis (pitch) the wing is mounted to the wing box with a positive cant of a 5 or 6 degrees relative to the deck angle. With that in mind, a "suicidal" pilot holding the yoke fully forward, and trimmed fully AND (aircraft nose down) should run out of control authority before the wings depart the aircraft in a dive, allowing the nose to rise checking the descent until the airspeed drops. IMHO, keeping a 777 in a headlong vertical descent from cruise would be impossible (thankfully).
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:51
  #6088 (permalink)  
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Anyone suggesting it was heading for Langkawi is contradicting the Thai authorities who said it didn't enter their airspace.

If the crew had such little time to act, I don't think they'd be thinking about whether Kuantan was open at that time of night. Penang would be the instinctive choice, with the hope of a straight-in approach.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:52
  #6089 (permalink)  
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Heavens - what an embarrassing nonsense this thread has become. As far as I know we know two things on which to base all these 'definite' theories:

1) Contact was lost around the FIR boundary
2) The aircraft is missing

NOTHING else has been 100% confirmed as I understand it.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 13:59
  #6090 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Ian W View Post
And another reason for primary radar height finding to be inaccurate is that the size of the aircraft gave a strong radar target that fooled the height finding algorithms.
Are you suggesting stacked beam height finding rather than a nodder?
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 14:02
  #6091 (permalink)  
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Quote [Old Carthusian]:
However, even though the rarity of the hijack or pilot deviance explanation is significant this particular line of investigation still fits the known facts better.

Correct: While several theories could fit the facts of plane going 'dark' (cascading electrical, mechanical failures for whatever reason) and turning west off course (airworthiness, compromised avionics issues, cockpit fire -head for the nearest airfield you know) there is the fact of the Immarsat data indicating the plane continued to fly for 7+ hours (and the turn was per-programmed) -Unless of course the Immarsat data is not a valid incontrovertible fact which raises a whole set of questions as to why it has officially been presented as such.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 14:02
  #6092 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BOAC View Post
Heavens - what an embarrassing nonsense this thread has become. As far as I know we know two things on which to base all these 'definite' theories:

1) Contact was lost around the FIR boundary
2) The aircraft is missing

NOTHING else has been 100% confirmed as I understand it.
I posted early this morning something similar:

"Reading all the reports and opinions, I have learnt only two things, one, the plane is missing, two, nobody has a clue where, how or why. Which I think we all knew in the first place."

And little will be added until it is found!
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 14:07
  #6093 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Romeo E.T. View Post
not B777 rated , but 0ver 10K hours on B737's, I have been thinking about this for a while.

I cannot help but still think its a catastrophic loss of electrical power, similar to to uncapping the battery switch and turning it off.......poof...instant darkness, no back up stby power....just total silence.

The engines will continue to work, being totally capable of suction feed only, as long as no large thrust changes are made.
The hydraulics will still operate as the hydraulic solenoids are only capable of being turned-off with electrical power, and without electrical power they are designed to default to open.

but Autopilot, autoflight systems, avionics, radios ACARS etc and vitally important pressurization will all fail.
If the crew were rendered unconscious thru this, the aircraft could well start a series of climbs and descends because the thin air at 35000ft is not conducive to aerodynamic stable flight.....but once it gets into thicker air at about 20000ft, the aerodynamic forces will allow the aircraft to reach a relatively stable flight regime, especially if the aircraft was in a cruise trimmed position at 35000ft.

the climb to 45000ft also makes sense w.r.t electrical failure......MACH TRIM......the aircraft has a tendency to tuck nose down at high cruise mach numbers, so the electrical mach trimmer applies some "nose-up trim" and then balances this with applied forward deflection of the control column........the loss of electrical power and the aircraft would release its forward control column input, hence the climb, into even thinner air, followed by phugoid action, as it would drop off at the top, eventually it would settle into an "in-trim" cruise at a much lower more dense atmosphere

Why the turn, I cannot explain
You'll need to explain the update to the Active Route and the 7 hours of powered SATCOM pings.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 14:27
  #6094 (permalink)  
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The Flight Officers here are more than capable to respond to an electrical fire in flight and that is to get the beast on the ground as quickly as they can. It is all embedded indelibly in the mind. Reaction is immediate.
That quick reaction includes/may include donning oxygen masks, establishing communication between the pilots and, depending on the emergency, a number of further memory items ... concluding in a landing at the nearest suitable airport.

Disabling a transponder, transmitting 'all right, good night' and turning/climbing to FL450 does not form any part of the emergency procedure.

Selecting an emergency squawk, transmitting a (most likely, stressed/muffled) message to ATC, turning toward nearest/departure/alternate airfield and DESCENDING does ...
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 15:17
  #6095 (permalink)  
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Plane seen in Maldives at 6:15 local = 9:15 Malaysia time.
This is 9 hrs after takeoff. Fuel load was 8 hrs maximum?
Plus fuel burn on initial trip north then backtrack to Malacca strait.
How is this sighting possibly MH370.?
Does not add up.

Who controls area.... Maldives ATC.? Do they not have a record of planes in that specific area at 6:15.?
Should be easy to rule it out if they do.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 15:23
  #6096 (permalink)  
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This does not look too good

"Files containing records of simulations carried out on the program were deleted Feb. 3," Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu said.

Read more: Malaysia: Files Were Deleted From Flight Simulator - Business Insider

Of course, when you hit the "delete" key the file is not actually deleted; all that happens is the index entry pointing to the file segment locations on the hard drive is deleted and as long as that disc space is not subsequently overwritten, it should be possible to restore the file....so hopefully more details on the missing files will emerge.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 15:30
  #6097 (permalink)  
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The information situation hasn't changed since MH370 disappeared: We know, that we know nothing except, that a B777-200ER with about 300 souls disappeared from the sky on 08.03.14.

The is no proof for any theory or rumours. We are getting since then contradicting informations only.

Possibly do the governments and secret services know more and this is a classical secret service operation by providing misleading information to the public.

Again: The only thing which is sure is, that we do not know anything about what happened.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 15:31
  #6098 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daylyt View Post
suninmyeyes - a very professional post, thank you.
Believe it or not, this is what PPRuNe was like before every man and his dog with no connection to the aviation profession decided to pollute this thread with absolute garbage. A case in point, is that post by a Geologist from Singapore, FFS!!
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 15:31
  #6099 (permalink)  
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More BS

I fly through MLE frequently. It is a busy airport open 24/7. As indeed are all the other Indian/Sri Lankan airports suggested. Diego Garcia is a US/UK Military base which is a preferred location by the Alpahbet soup Agencies to ask quiet questions of disappeared folks. Until recently, SQ used to fly 744's through MLE between Europe and SIN. Now it's a daily SIN-MLE redeye turnaround.

These are NOT places where a 772 could land without being noticed??

Last edited by philipat; 19th Mar 2014 at 15:42.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 15:33
  #6100 (permalink)  
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I'm quite astonished by the absolute confidence with which those ministers confirm something which is the opposite of what they confirmed the day before, without a flicker of a blush or an acknowledgement that this is a course correction. I'm not sure that 'facts' are what we've got or will get. My new term for what comes out of a Malaysian minister's mouth is 'mangosteens'. We've had tons of mangosteens dumped on us by those press conferences.
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