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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:10
  #541 (permalink)  
 
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Even if a big bomb went off amidships, the tail and wings would fall off but would still be in big pieces for the float down to the ocean. And all the stuff in the cabin, cushions, furnishings wouldn't just be vapourised.
Good point. What about debris from a plunge? Strange nothing is floating about though thinking about the Brazil crash...
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:12
  #542 (permalink)  
 
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Sully landed in daylight. I am not aware of any successful night ditching of a passenger jet at sea.
Just my .02 worth.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:14
  #543 (permalink)  
 
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I will be surprised if a fisherman did not see something , the sea is littered with powerful lights at night , think its related to squid fishing . Maybe someone knows something out there but has no way of communicating it .
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:14
  #544 (permalink)  
 
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Onetrack said
I was under the impression that any dive into the sea from cruise at FL350 would still result in rapid breakup as VNE was exceeded?
Perhaps the 777 airframe is exceptionally robust, more so than we thought.
The Fedex MD11 where the jumpseat riding FE tried to take control was flown way past the barberpole and had substantial damage, but was still able to be landed.

I remember watching a doco about the design and build of the B777 and the wing structural test was very impressive as it allowed something like a 6m flex up and down before failing. My guess is it would be pretty robust.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:16
  #545 (permalink)  
 
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What if the pilot attempted a ditching? As I recall, when Sully landed in the river, there was little debris other than the rafts and life jackets. If the plane was ditched, and for some reason the passengers were unable to get out before it sank, would that explain the lack of debris?
Doesn't seem to fit the no radio situation.

Think of the Gol 737 flight after collision. Pilots were probably under too high of G load to operated anything other than the yoke or pedals if that. Aero forces broke the tail off, but it was still in large intact pieces until ground impact.

It's still a large search area, so lack of debris reports less than 2 days after search started I think is not unexpected. It's hard to be patient after something like this.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:17
  #546 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by truthinbeer View Post
Good point. What about debris from a plunge? Strange nothing is floating about though thinking about the Brazil crash...
The debris is there. They just haven't found it yet. The two "Oil Slicks" they think they found may not be from MH370 either.

Really, at this point we know almost nothing other than the aircraft has gone missing while cruising at 35,000' without a distress signal of any kind.

Everything else is speculation.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:18
  #547 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder about the credibility of the Captain who was quoted as saying he had a conversation:
Not the first time in this accident reporting that people have been misquoted...
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:20
  #548 (permalink)  
 
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Xiamen Daily, a relatively reliable chinese newpaper has reported another idenitity dismatch (name and passport no didn't match) was found on the boarding list, according to the exit&entry administration authority of Xiamen city.

A different media also reported they found the original owner of doubtful passport number was at home (at China) and didn't go aboard recently. (The second news has not been confirmed by China authority yet.)
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:24
  #549 (permalink)  
 
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WRT to crew incapacitation; the aircraft was shown steady at 35000 feet so presumably the auto pilot had been engaged not long after departure. Crew incapacitation at this point would mean the aircraft simply flew on at 35,000 till fuel exhaustion.

This Aviation Herald report has the crew in contact with ATC as well so incapacitation at that point can be ruled out. The report states that both radar and radio contact was lost around 0122 local.

It will be interesting to see primary and secondary radar traces from that point on. The lack of transponder information from then on points to either massive electrical failure, or deliberate switching off.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:31
  #550 (permalink)  
 
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stolen passports

I've followed this thread and enjoyed everyone's insight. I just wanted to add this to the mix:

They are reporting an additional 2x possible stolen passports being used on the flight.


Two more Europeans passengers with suspect identities onboard missing MH370 - The Malaysian Insider

I can not believe that the stolen passports are a red herring.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:39
  #551 (permalink)  
 
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Does not the absence of debris pretty much eliminate the various in flight breakup options?
No in flight breakup and no Acars suggests purposeful action rather than accident.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:40
  #552 (permalink)  
 
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Uncommanded reverse thrust in flight...

possible or not on the 777?
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:42
  #553 (permalink)  
 
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Just throwing this out there...

In the crash of MI185 at Palembang of a 737 in 19 Dec 1997, the crash site had very little debris. The aircraft apparently went into a steep dive and plunged into the palembang river. There were some debris that were on the surface (due to the inflight breakup) and surrounding dry land but at the impact area, most of it went straight into the riverbed due to the immense speed. Pilot suicide was concluded by the NTSB but the Indonesian government official report could not definitively state it as a concrete finding. A group of families took their own action to sue the manufacturer of a part which commands the rudder and was awarded some settlement (in USA courts). The vid is available on youtube.

If there is anything to take from this incident, it would be that the high speed of impact will leave few floating debris. Any that were generated during the breakup would be scattered over a wide area and very difficult to find (compared to a narrow river). As for the lack of comms and silence in the cockpit, apparently the MI185 incident captain had a history of disabling the CB to the CVR which was NTSB's key link to the suicide theory. Though investigators also revealed that there was a history of problems with the power to the Black boxes in the preceding flights.

Really hope to find out what happened soon so that the families can get some closure.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:42
  #554 (permalink)  
 
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Two more Europeans passengers with suspect identities onboard missing MH370

Two more Europeans passengers with suspect identities onboard missing MH370

Regards the above post, it's almost unanimously accepted that was a case of pilot suicide something that is primarily disputed in Indonesia.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:43
  #555 (permalink)  
 
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Does not the absence of debris pretty much eliminate the various in flight breakup options?
I think the only supposition with a probable outcome is that debris will be found.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:44
  #556 (permalink)  
 
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If (and I do mean if) the other captain did actually make contact with the aircraft after it lost contact/disappeared off radar then it throws a whole different perspective on this.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:45
  #557 (permalink)  
 
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Cant believe it was #5. I would think you would get at least 1 squawk in between FL350 and the water.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:52
  #558 (permalink)  
 
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The report from the MH flight asked to contact the MH 370 indicates they were using 121.5. I have never been asked to contact another aircraft on HF. It would be very rare.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 01:59
  #559 (permalink)  
 
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I think we will all be relieved when something happens, especially those poor family relatives of crew and passengers. Just why no seats or life jackets have surfaced, I like many others, have no idea, other than they are searching in the wrong area, but my knowledge of that area, is it a busy one, they fish all night and day, its just weird nobody saw anything. Its not like its in the middle of the Atlantic. But until they do, just so much is on hold. Boeing (is it our aircraft that caused it) Malaysian Airlines LAMES (what did we miss?) Security at KL (who did we let thru) refuellers (everything was normal) Flight Ops, (did we miss anything with these two pilots) and if so, what? And for the aviation industry en masse, a terrible tragedy has taken place, one we hate to acknowledge, and to have to be forced to believe once more, neither machine, nor man, is infallible.
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Old 9th Mar 2014, 03:06
  #560 (permalink)  
 
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Pilot: I established contact with plane - General - New Straits Times

This is the report URL. The report is hazy on detail and does not state that MH370 was clearly identified on the first call. The report is silent on the response to the Vietnamese Controller's request for a second contact. Far from definitive information.

121.7 being VHF and thus LOS was probably the best frequency to use if not SOPs.
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