Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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Follow-up question at the KL presser (also live on BBC World News) brought out that it was "military radar" that indicated the possible turn-back. Didn't say whose military radar.
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I too am quite skeptical of the "debris" photograph. I guess it's possible that with highly angular setting or rising sunlight that debris could be lit in such a way. One would have to assume the photographer is capable of recognizing what are lit city lights and what are something that looks out of the norm - and hence why they brought it to outside attention. Additionally it does appear the shot was taken in the early morning according to reports.
On the flip-side it could also be completely bogus.
On the flip-side it could also be completely bogus.
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The picture would appear (to me) to show fishing boats (probably squid). The amount of fishing boats in this area is unreal and they look very similar to this picture from the air at night.
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news conference;
main focus to locate a/c.
military radar shows a possible aircraft turnback.
search widened to include land/sea area on the western side of country/malacca straits.
they have cctv of the 2 pax using stolen passports,from check in to departure gate.
22 aircraft and 40 ships involved in search.incl 5 from indonesia.
5 pax did not board the a/c ,their bags were removed.
main focus to locate a/c.
military radar shows a possible aircraft turnback.
search widened to include land/sea area on the western side of country/malacca straits.
they have cctv of the 2 pax using stolen passports,from check in to departure gate.
22 aircraft and 40 ships involved in search.incl 5 from indonesia.
5 pax did not board the a/c ,their bags were removed.
Last edited by camel; 9th Mar 2014 at 05:47.
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One would have to assume the photographer is capable of recognizing what are lit city lights and what are something that looks out of the norm - and hence why they brought it to outside attention.
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Debris Photos
Looking at the debris photos and information from the poster on Weibo. His photo was taken at 6.39am according to his tv screen and he was travelling on Beijing to KL route with Malaysia airlines and was about 90 minutes from KL.
At 6.39am KL time malaysian airlines flight MH361 from Beijing to KL was exactly over this area and i've just checked the flight track for it .
It seems further away than areas being searched, and all other flights usually show up over this area on radar. This is maybe 40-50km from Phan Thiet and maybe 20km from the coast of vietnam.
What do you think??
At 6.39am KL time malaysian airlines flight MH361 from Beijing to KL was exactly over this area and i've just checked the flight track for it .
It seems further away than areas being searched, and all other flights usually show up over this area on radar. This is maybe 40-50km from Phan Thiet and maybe 20km from the coast of vietnam.
What do you think??
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photo of possible debris
The photo that shows the window frame as reference looks to me to be ice crystals that form on the window panes sometimes. This explains why they are all of similar intensity. With the normal visibility from inside a cabin with the inner protective panes you can't point vertically down so some of the possible debris would be floating in the sky !
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According to this article: Two More Europeans with False Passports
It would seem these are the two Ukrainians. I recall a list posted here earlier with the 7 Pax who booked through China Southwest. The article said they were both from the same country. That list had 2 Ukrainians.
It would seem these are the two Ukrainians. I recall a list posted here earlier with the 7 Pax who booked through China Southwest. The article said they were both from the same country. That list had 2 Ukrainians.
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Possible turn back? It did or it did not. No need for further interrogation of your military radar records.
When pressed by the Journalists, who at last seem to understand how to ask pertinent questions, the military and political guys were pressured into lying immediately. Ask any body language specialist.
The Aviation Minister is ALSO the Defence Minister! Double salary and conflict of interest. He must be very proud of the security arrangements at KL regarding passport recognition, either rubbish or worse ignored. On his watch.
By the way, a chest full of tacky medals do not impress anyone other than third world dictators.
When pressed by the Journalists, who at last seem to understand how to ask pertinent questions, the military and political guys were pressured into lying immediately. Ask any body language specialist.
The Aviation Minister is ALSO the Defence Minister! Double salary and conflict of interest. He must be very proud of the security arrangements at KL regarding passport recognition, either rubbish or worse ignored. On his watch.
By the way, a chest full of tacky medals do not impress anyone other than third world dictators.
Last edited by silverhawk; 9th Mar 2014 at 05:52. Reason: Extra value
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UPDATE [1.20pm]: Department of Civil Aviation clarifies earlier statement by the Defence Minister Hishammuddin Hussein,
saying only two – not four – passengers had boarded the flight using stolen passports.
CCTV footage shows the two individuals from the check-in point to departure. Footage will be used for investigations.
Malaysia Airlines says the aircraft had been repaired by Boeing and was certified safe to fly. They dismissed the possibility of a technical problem.
saying only two – not four – passengers had boarded the flight using stolen passports.
CCTV footage shows the two individuals from the check-in point to departure. Footage will be used for investigations.
Malaysia Airlines says the aircraft had been repaired by Boeing and was certified safe to fly. They dismissed the possibility of a technical problem.
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RE 777 WING TEST
By the way - I was at that test- Being a then recently retired injun - ear having worked on that program. And i attended the quick look summary afterwards.
They had handed out before the test a marked page showing where they expected the failure to occur. the quick look data displayed in the conference room indicated the prediction was within a few inches of expected- verifying the computer program analysis. It was as I recall on the upper surface in compression at about the second or third rib out from side of body join.
I mention this only to show that the test was accurate, did not flex ' up and down' as some say and exceeded the required load by a few percent.
And from memory - it would take a approx 3 g plus pull up ( as in recovery from a dive ) to fail the wing.
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That photo was taken 6.39am KL time or 5.39 Vietnam time. Sunrise in Ho chi Minh is ~6:04 am local time.
So i doubt it would be pitch dark at 5.39am.
Also the sunrise from 11,000 m would be around 7 minutes earlier. Now i understand that won't illuminate the ground but it certainly won't be pitch dark when the guy took the photo.
So i doubt it would be pitch dark at 5.39am.
Also the sunrise from 11,000 m would be around 7 minutes earlier. Now i understand that won't illuminate the ground but it certainly won't be pitch dark when the guy took the photo.
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Are Malaysia Airlines telling us all they know ?
I dont think so.
1. If there was a turn back SOP would be for crew to report this - they said they did not get a report.
2. Boeing 777-200 reports constantly back to base many paramateurs of the aircrafts performance and position. MH say they dont know the position of the crash site.
There are other points also but in essence. They are keeping many things to them selves. Ref Military radar that was drag out of them from a reporter.
Watch this space Malaysian Air are not being transparent for some reason.
Watch the press conferences carefully and make up your mind.
I dont think so.
1. If there was a turn back SOP would be for crew to report this - they said they did not get a report.
2. Boeing 777-200 reports constantly back to base many paramateurs of the aircrafts performance and position. MH say they dont know the position of the crash site.
There are other points also but in essence. They are keeping many things to them selves. Ref Military radar that was drag out of them from a reporter.
Watch this space Malaysian Air are not being transparent for some reason.
Watch the press conferences carefully and make up your mind.
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That photo of "debris" when blown up looks like lights of buildings in a valley with a winding dark streak through the middle. Houses either side of it ? River ? And houses up side valleys.
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A Malaysian military radar showed trace of flight MH370 turning back before it vanished early yesterday although the pilots did not issue any distress signals, the authorities said today.
The trace has prompted the authorities to widen the search area beyond the point the Boeing 777-200ER disappeared from the air over the Malaysian-Vietnamese maritime border at 1.30am on Saturday.
The authorities are looking are studying the possibility that MH370 could have made a turn-around midway through its flight to Beijing.
Air force chief General Tan Sri Rodzali Daud said that based on the recoding of military radar, there was possible indication that the aircraft did a turn-back.
"We are still trying to make sense of this because it is corroborated by civil radar,” he said today at the latest press conference held at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport. – March 9, 2014.
The trace has prompted the authorities to widen the search area beyond the point the Boeing 777-200ER disappeared from the air over the Malaysian-Vietnamese maritime border at 1.30am on Saturday.
The authorities are looking are studying the possibility that MH370 could have made a turn-around midway through its flight to Beijing.
Air force chief General Tan Sri Rodzali Daud said that based on the recoding of military radar, there was possible indication that the aircraft did a turn-back.
"We are still trying to make sense of this because it is corroborated by civil radar,” he said today at the latest press conference held at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport. – March 9, 2014.
short flights long nights
BBC reporting that we may now have four people on stolen passport.
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Caught on CCTV but still allowed to travel, incompetant in the extreme!
Too late by then. By the way, every passenger in a terminal is 'caught on CCTV'
Idiotic press release.
Too late by then. By the way, every passenger in a terminal is 'caught on CCTV'
Idiotic press release.
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Military radar may be primary (passive) while ATC is secondary (active).
The turn-back info just hints to the possible fact that after a catastrophic failure electricity went away and a bigger part of the assembly spinned, thus producing primary radar returns.
The turn-back info just hints to the possible fact that after a catastrophic failure electricity went away and a bigger part of the assembly spinned, thus producing primary radar returns.