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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:05
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Originally Posted by FE Hoppy
@Snowfalcon2


You are not thinking of the impact such a regulation has on the industry.

This would require that every aeroplane has a realtime data transmission of every system. Including everything! It's basically more data than the FDR records transmitted real time.

Have you thought about the finical implication and time frame required to implement this regulation?
There will soon be a requirement for aircraft to be equipped with FANS B/2 ADS-C EPP as well as FANS 1/A ADS-C EPP (over SATCOM) for oceanic. With the large jumps in available bandwidth an EPP broadcast every 60 seconds would not overload the system, and your aircraft will almost certainly be retrofitted with the capability. A slight mod to the system or even just regulations that say that ADS-C EPP MUST be functioning during flight rather like normal SSR/Mode A/C, or you WILL need to land, would ensure that the proverbial F-16's would be escorting you should that broadcast stop or the aircraft wander too far from the EPP coordinates.

This would solve both MH370 and the AF447 issues in one simple regulation.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:05
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By the way, it's possible to track the Greek freighter Elka Athina, mentioned a few pages back, in relation to possible sightings of floating luggage in Malacca Strait:

Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions - AIS Marine Traffic

What is odd is that the Strait is incredibly busy with ships, so why this one would be singled out is odd. One would think many ships would be asked to be on the lookout.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:06
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The media keep reporting that the two pilots did not ask to fly together. That of course predicates that it was 'essential' that it was this flight that was chosen.

It might equally have been that the two pilots waited until chance put them on the same flight.

This is not to say that the pilots were the culprits but that not asking to fly together is a red herring.
I think a better question would be whether either of the pilots asked to be on that particular flight.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:08
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This is not true. If the ACARS went through a normal log-off sequence then it was shut down deliberately. If it just stopped reporting then it could have been some other reason. As it has been said multiple times 'the ACARS was deliberately switched off' that implies that it went through a log-off sequence and tidy shut down, something it would NOT have done if the power to it was cut by the circuit breaker being tripped.
Can you share that tidy shutdown sequence from the ACARS protocol with us?
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:17
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So many agencies involved now,I get the feeling they have rough idea where the T7 is.

But if you trying to catch a car thief you won't broadcast to world you know where they are and coming for them.

Hence the Southern corridor.
I had thought this too. I can imagine a scenario where they've located it on the northern route, on the ground somewhere - but have not announced it because they are figuring out what action to take next, whether passengers are being held, etc.

Wild speculation, but as possible as anything else.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:17
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Originally Posted by XB70_Valkyrie
Can you share that tidy shutdown sequence from the ACARS protocol with us?
that has been answered many times, i could tell you but it would probably be deleted for being repititous, as it was when i answered the exact same question some 7 hrs ago
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:18
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A question please. If the aircraft sent out pings until approx 0800 hours, if it was on the ground somewhere would it not still send out pings?
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:18
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Quick word on circuit breakers. They are not to protect the box, but the power wiring to it. We are trying to prevent the wiring from setting a fire, not prevent the box from smoking.

On the E&E door. Are you folks (pilots) really worried about this? It would be simple enough to retrofit an electric lock controlled from the flight deck. Might as well do it to the 747's too while we are at it.

On someone entering the E&E bay and pulling breakers. I would hope that if someone was pulling breakers on an active system, you would get an immediate advisory message ( if not a caution) on the EICAS "ACARS MU FAIL" "TRANSPONDER 2 FAIL"etc

I would assume even if you were to send the FO to investigate, that would be worthy of a radio call to someone first?
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:19
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lonewolf 50

Quote:
The US and Malaysian agenda will be to deflect the publicís attention from the probable cause of the disappearance of the AC for obvious reasons. The radar contacts and satellite comms probably relate to other AC/drones. I hope I am proved wrong. I hope I am proved wrong .


I really hope you win the case of Guinness.

I have no expertise on radar/ satellites or drones but some on aviation matters in general. I was quoting from a previous thread (so many now I can't remember which) to suggest that there was some other explanation for the radar contact and pings. This closing comment was to suggest that at the moment the US and Malaysia would prefer the public to think hijackers took one plane rather than the possibility that there were safety issues on other planes. Perhaps I could have expresses it better it was not meant to be political statement.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:20
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Putao, Myanmar 7000 ft runway

While it seems extremely unlikely that MH370 could maneuver over land undetected to a point that intersects the distance from the last satellite ping, nevertheless I looked at the only airport in northern Myanmar that could possibly be used by the 777 and the right distance from the satellite....although a night landing there would seem absurd, I suppose it could be done with enough simulator practice.
PBU / VYPT is 7000 feet long at 1500 ft elevation. Can't imagine the aircraft could be there or anywhere else on land....where would they hide it! Surely someone has checked PBU by now just in case. Anyone familiar with Myanmar capabilities?...is it possible a 777 could overfly their country without being detected as a primary target on their radar?
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:23
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Access to E/E bay

I earlier commented about there being access to the E/E bay located outside the cockpit and that this was questionable. However, it makes sense after reading this:

"This access is potentially needed for extreme emergencies, such as by the cabin crew to fight an E/E bay fire."

Question is do you put possibility of emergency above chances of sabotage...?

Last edited by dmba; 16th Mar 2014 at 17:24. Reason: spelling
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:27
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Originally Posted by Surtchris
I was quoting from a previous thread ... to suggest that there was some other explanation for the radar contact and pings. This closing comment was to suggest that at the moment the US and Malaysia would prefer the public to think hijackers took one plane rather than the possibility that there were safety issues on other planes. Perhaps I could have expresses it better it was not meant to be political statement.
I think that line of reasoning is inverse from the political positions of both US and Malaysian governments.

It seems to me that it is of greater political benefit for both of those nations if things are of a mechanical malfunction, burden of remedy on the aircraft manufacturer or MAS maintenance practices, than the burden being on either nations' security charade being exposed for the farce that it is.

That's a bit more hurtful to Malaysia for this case, of course.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:29
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Transponders off under pilot control:
I have turned off a transponder per ATC request when it was malfunctioning and doing something like a constant IDENT or jibberish numbers. Also when flying formation. Also with a generator failure to ease the load on the battery.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:37
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I beleive I have read every post.
Has it been verified that one of the last contacts signed off with the words "Roger that"? If so, then the investigators need to question as many crew as possible that flew with the Captain and FO to ascertain if they ever used those words. IF NOT, then I would investigate the individual who had flight sim training and see if he was taught or used these words in training. The answers to the above would point to either Southern route an Captain/FO surcide, or Northern route and hijacking.
The individual who had flight sim training intriques me. As a SLF, I had 2 separate one hour sessions in a major airline's 777 SIM. I found that controlling MASS is no easy thing. Some of the reported altitude excursions could be explained by someone like me thinking the real plane flew like the SIM only to find out that it was massively more difficulut in a real 777 for an amateur. The amateur would then switch to VNAV and LNAV and other modes to let the computers do the work.
Just thinking out loud......
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:39
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its this simple

FAA to investigate coffee spill that diverted flight - CNN.com
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:44
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FAA to investigate coffee spill that diverted flight - CNN.com
There's a movie about such a scenario:

Fate Is The Hunter

Not at all like the book...
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:46
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@ jcjeant:

"Politician whose career is tied to terrorism declares 'this is terrorism' "
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:48
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CNN making the news

First, Lithium cells. A pink herring sans roe each new day. Now they've latched on to the coffee thing. I'm heading for Fox who at least seem to stay current.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:50
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DCrefugee


yes, that's the scenario. one of my favorite movies (though hated by many pilots). I saw it when it came out in the theatres in the 20th century.

It just tells everyone that the littlest thing can bring down something big.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:51
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With all the 'confirm' assumptions and concurrence that ACARS was deliberately disabled, wouldn't it be a possible scenario that the C/B's for VHF2 and 3 were pulled, and ACARS happen to transmit via VHF3?
And if it is a deliberate (i.e. hijack/suicide) action, I would want to keep VHF1 and HF1 alive to monitor radio chatter.
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