"2010 JFK A380 go-around incident highlights need for change"
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Sadly airlines like Air France are managing that all on their own
Wouldn't it be better if BOAC and the alike tried a little bit more factual reading than to ennoy us with their preconceived (even if with underlying reality) opinion?
Consider a few facts:
This rather detailed 143 long study by the French BEA deals with 15 ASAGA* accidents/incidents, for which over more than a decennie ICAO, French and FAA data bases have been scanned. The A380 in JFK merely accounts for 1,5 pages.
*ASAGA = Aeroplane State Awareness during Go Around
The purpose clearly is to shed light on a rather common critical scenario, also occuring in anglo-saxon air culture.
Incidentally one also finds on You-tube the proud video of Emirates claiming
A380 opertation to JFK more than a year prior to AF......
In reality, I do not know which particular airline was involved in that particular incident (although I do for most of the analysed accidents), but definetly we are not have here a report by a national tranportation board on a national occurence.
Bottom line: a pretty good report about a concerning and common scenario for a wide variety of A/C types and operators. Instructive for all sides of channels, oceans and other borders.
Originally Posted by Don't Pizz Me Orf
A friend of yours (an ex supa driver) over here has suggested you have seen them operate in the go-around mode quite often.
If in doubt, Go Around!! No bonus for being a hero any more! 
Originally Posted by Dozy
@Capt. Bloggs - wasn't there an SAS MD-80 where the autothrottles firewalled (and destroyed) the engines following ice ingestion?
The perils of backing up the visual with the ILS.
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 29th Aug 2013 at 23:40.
Dozy
a bit more complicated, but the engines did increase in thrust by virtue of an aircraft auto-system command unbeknown to the pilot and were not retarded by the pilot to clear the engine surging,
Other similar MD-80 ice events where throttles were not retarded by the crew even though the aircraft systems did not advance them in those cases.
wasn't there an SAS MD-80 where the autothrottles firewalled (and destroyed) the engines following ice ingestion?
Other similar MD-80 ice events where throttles were not retarded by the crew even though the aircraft systems did not advance them in those cases.
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avHerald seems to think AF:
Report: Air France A388 at New York on Oct 11th 2010, oversped flaps during go-around
Report: Air France A388 at New York on Oct 11th 2010, oversped flaps during go-around
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we taught low-level alt cap go-arounds in the 320/330 sim...select TOGA momentarily then climb detent to assure the A/T goes into speed mode when ALT* occurs...otherwise.....
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Did one of those lately.
AP/AT off, say "GA" and whatever flaps your bird requests, shove up some thrust and put in a decent pitch, at pos clb rate ask for the gear up, level the bird at the 1000 or 1500ft.
Follow the briefed GA proc and tell the PM (or PNF, whatever) to clean up the automatics and try to bring the FMA to what you want, then engage AP/AT and the relevant modes.
It's called flying ....... unfortunately seems rocket science nowadays!
AP/AT off, say "GA" and whatever flaps your bird requests, shove up some thrust and put in a decent pitch, at pos clb rate ask for the gear up, level the bird at the 1000 or 1500ft.
Follow the briefed GA proc and tell the PM (or PNF, whatever) to clean up the automatics and try to bring the FMA to what you want, then engage AP/AT and the relevant modes.
It's called flying ....... unfortunately seems rocket science nowadays!
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From the BEA analysis (P2 PF):
"At 480 feet, the approach had still not been stabilised and the speed remained at 210 kt. The Captain ordered a go-around, which surprised the co-pilot who was focused on the landing."
Surprised!!
"At 480 feet, the approach had still not been stabilised and the speed remained at 210 kt. The Captain ordered a go-around, which surprised the co-pilot who was focused on the landing."
Surprised!!
Cap: Surprise, surprise... We are going to perform a Go-around
F/O: A go what ?
Cap: Go-around! Have you ever study that at flight school?
F/O: I am afraid,I missed that classrom.
Anyway, Airbus don't have an automatic flap retraction system in case of overspeed ?
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Anyway, Airbus don't have an automatic flap retraction system in case of overspeed ?
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Agree with all who suggest better pilot training & back to the basics culture. Recent incidents & accidents will continue while we have guys pushing buttons, quizzing the FMC etc, instead of flying the plane. On my first transport type following highly selective An Initio Sponsored Taining, Capt turned to me & said "In the event of a GA, it will be PARFU". Confused, I stopped him there & asked, politely, "What the hell is PARFU ?". He replied; Power,Attitude,Radio,Flaps.Undercarriage. New to me but I adopted it on all susequent types (mentally). Works from Cessna 150 - A380. (with obvious slight modification). Aaaah, but that was when top instructors taught us to FLY planes.
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Anyway, Airbus don't have an automatic flap retraction system in case of overspeed ?
The speed exceeded the VFE for CONF 2 by about 12 knots. The overspeed warning (CRC) triggered at VFE+4 kt. The flaps started to retract, ordered by the FLAP LOAD RELIEF protection.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by Level100
Wouldn't it be better if BOAC and the alike tried a little bit more factual reading
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"In the event of a GA, it will be PARFU". Confused, I stopped him there & asked, politely, "What the hell is PARFU ?". He replied; Power,Attitude,Radio,Flaps.Undercarriage
Power, Attitude, Flaps, Undercarriage, Radio?
At least that how I've always been trained to do a G/A
From AvHerald -
Why didn't the Captain call from a go around then? It was never going to be successful.
Descending through 1840 feet the aircraft was two dots above glidepath, thrust was at idle, speed 210 KIAS, the vertical speed was 1600fpm and the speedbrakes had been fully deployed.
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Well, a high fast approach at a busy airport like JFK with a 350 tons beast will make an interesting Energy Management challenge for any pilot I would say.
Question is: do you really want to practice it live?
Question is: do you really want to practice it live?
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Landflap :
I have similarly learnt something similar but it was PARFUM , which is French for perfume.
Power, Attitude, Radio, Flaps. Undercarriage, Monitoring (positive rate) ,
We had tens of those in those (far away) days, works well.
Ironbut57 :
Yes, unfortunately true . AF has the sad record as being the airline that crashed for the first time every type of Airbus they had . (except the A380)
What the hell is PARFU ?". He replied; Power,Attitude,Radio,Flaps.Undercarriage.
Power, Attitude, Radio, Flaps. Undercarriage, Monitoring (positive rate) ,
We had tens of those in those (far away) days, works well.
Ironbut57 :
Seems the French have worse luck flying Airbus than anybody else.
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, if you count broken pieces, I think the cut-off of the tailcone/APU of one of their 380s by one of their 330s while taxiing in CDG was before that even ! I meant hull losses.