Southwest KLGA gear collapse.
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What I don't understand here - even someone whose only experience is in a Cessna 152 will understand enough about flight dynamics to not spike the nose gear. How is conceivably possible that the captain preferred spiking the nose to going around?
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Yancey Slide:
Taking over from a student's botched approach/landing attempt was something I learned early on as a GA CFI (with course training and later experience). The airlines never taught that, even when becoming a check airman. Knowing how much rope to dole out, along with knowing your personal ability to recover said rope is part of the game. Like Harry Callahan said, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Sometimes doling out the rope can be an instructional learning situation for some pilots in order to fully realize the error of their ways, but then safety and structural integrity must always be measured in the equation. That balancing act should always be extremely conservative when herding a load of pax, and the industry default go-around was certainly a step in the right direction.
"Tell me, any CA here during their initial command training or subsequent upgrades receive ANY training/discussion in the sim on taking over from an FO, anyone here have any guide on this in their manuals? From my experience NO, yet some here expect a picture perfect result from it."
Haven't most CA's by the time they get to those levels have some instructing background? One would think that the knowledge of knowing just how long a rope you can safely leave someone before jumping in would have been developed there, especially initial student pilot instructing.
Haven't most CA's by the time they get to those levels have some instructing background? One would think that the knowledge of knowing just how long a rope you can safely leave someone before jumping in would have been developed there, especially initial student pilot instructing.
Sometimes doling out the rope can be an instructional learning situation for some pilots in order to fully realize the error of their ways, but then safety and structural integrity must always be measured in the equation. That balancing act should always be extremely conservative when herding a load of pax, and the industry default go-around was certainly a step in the right direction.
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Well, if the Captain takes over at 400 feet, there certainly does seem to be an implication that the approach was unstable or otherwise outside of parameters. But the Crew reported that the approach was stable, on speed, on track and on glide. Not sure what the missing bit of information is that makes those two facts fit together.
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@Airbubba - I'm sure Auburn Calloway was a "he", no?
As I asserted in the opening sentence of the paragraph:
When diversity is considered, a checkered employment history has not prevented some folks from finding a job in night freight.
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I thought Calloway came to Fedex via the Flying Tigers buyout. Was he not already flying for Tigers?
Anyway, Auburn got fired at Gulf Air and Tigers and was hired by FedEx in 1988 shortly before FedEx bought Tigers late in the year. Auburn was less than candid about his employment history and greatly pencil whipped his Navy pilot in command time on his FedEx application.
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Agreed that the guy was unstable and an undoubted 
hole to boot - but there's no evidence that he was a "diversity hire" to my knowledge. In my experience a wrong'un is a wrong'un irrespective of race or gender.
hole to boot - but there's no evidence that he was a "diversity hire" to my knowledge. In my experience a wrong'un is a wrong'un irrespective of race or gender.
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A2
Quote:Post 410
Well, actually, given that her job is, in part, to keep the airplane from crashing, it's pretty much indisputable that she *wasn't* doing her job. She was the handling pilot from 400 ft AGL to the impact crater. Doesn't matter how badly the FO may screwed up prior to her taking over, driving the nose strut into the avionics bay is all on her.
Quote:Post 466
Just to be clear, I've never claimed that all pilots who wreck airplanes are, or should be, fired. I just said that it's not an unexpected outcome and not unreasonable. Just as an example closer to the incident at hand, the Midway pilots were not fired, by Southwest, but the Burbank pilots were.
A2,
Make up your mind, before you were adamant that yes deserved to lose her job, she bent her a/c and had no excuse. Why wouldn't the Midway CA deserve to lose his job, landed d/w on contaminated rwy, landed long, went off the rwy and killed someone. In Jamaica, they landed d/w, landed long and went off the rwy. Yet you display a different attitude towards her, what's you reasoning? Yes, they faced demanding situations, but did they face having to land immediately when maybe going around would have seen a better outcome?
Anyone getting uppity about what I've said pls don't get excited, I'm not criticising them.
Well, actually, given that her job is, in part, to keep the airplane from crashing, it's pretty much indisputable that she *wasn't* doing her job. She was the handling pilot from 400 ft AGL to the impact crater. Doesn't matter how badly the FO may screwed up prior to her taking over, driving the nose strut into the avionics bay is all on her.
Quote:Post 466
Just to be clear, I've never claimed that all pilots who wreck airplanes are, or should be, fired. I just said that it's not an unexpected outcome and not unreasonable. Just as an example closer to the incident at hand, the Midway pilots were not fired, by Southwest, but the Burbank pilots were.
A2,
Make up your mind, before you were adamant that yes deserved to lose her job, she bent her a/c and had no excuse. Why wouldn't the Midway CA deserve to lose his job, landed d/w on contaminated rwy, landed long, went off the rwy and killed someone. In Jamaica, they landed d/w, landed long and went off the rwy. Yet you display a different attitude towards her, what's you reasoning? Yes, they faced demanding situations, but did they face having to land immediately when maybe going around would have seen a better outcome?
Anyone getting uppity about what I've said pls don't get excited, I'm not criticising them.
Last edited by ANCPER; 11th Oct 2013 at 06:46.
A key bit of info that only recently came to my attention was that the FO called for a go-around whereupon the CA took the controls and "landed". Under CRM rules, this would seem to explain her termination.
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Do you have a source for that? That's has been mentioned previously at least once in this thread, but so far I haven't seen anything to back it up. Not saying it's wrong, just that there's been a lot of things posted here, many of which have been shown to be incorrect. That's an interesting piece of information and would go a long way in making the other pieces fit together, but it would be nice to know where it's coming from.
A rumor
Since this is a rumor network......
A friend of mine, retired from America West told me a story today.
He said that there was a female pilot at AW who was very good on academics, procedures, and systems knowledge, but had a lot of trouble with flying the plane and making decisions. She failed 2 upgrade attempts.
He further stated that she took a leave, and had a ground school and sim work with AA, but did not make it there, either.
She returned to AW, and eventually left to go to Morris Air......and he was told that the KLGA captain is the same person.
A friend of mine, retired from America West told me a story today.
He said that there was a female pilot at AW who was very good on academics, procedures, and systems knowledge, but had a lot of trouble with flying the plane and making decisions. She failed 2 upgrade attempts.
He further stated that she took a leave, and had a ground school and sim work with AA, but did not make it there, either.
She returned to AW, and eventually left to go to Morris Air......and he was told that the KLGA captain is the same person.
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Old Boeing Driver
...pilot at AW who was very good on academics, procedures, and systems knowledge, but...
Last edited by Desert185; 17th Oct 2013 at 22:50.