Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Asiana flight crash at San Francisco

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Asiana flight crash at San Francisco

Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:14
  #641 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The AUK
Age: 80
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From Post #652 - How about option #4:

Right on the money TLB.

This is what the real stick and rudder people do, and it works in a very safe and proficient manner every time.

Last edited by The Big E; 8th Jul 2013 at 01:01.
The Big E is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:15
  #642 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The link above from Barit is well worth reading

Rob
PPRuNe Towers is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:21
  #643 (permalink)  
ABX
AustralianMade
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Out in the weather!
Age: 54
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Actual impact and crash footage

Actual impact and crash footage


ABX is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:28
  #644 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Paris
Age: 74
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Apparently one of the chinese teenagers got run over by an airport vehicle.
edmundronald is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:35
  #645 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Location Location
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@barit1

Thanks for the link. Absolutely excellent presentation.
Shutterbug is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:37
  #646 (permalink)  

Untitled
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Transatlantic
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
NTSB media briefing from earlier today.

Polikarpov is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:37
  #647 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NNW of Antipodes
Age: 81
Posts: 1,330
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@ barit1

Your Flying Professors link in post #662 was and is well worth the read. Many thanks.

Last edited by mm43; 8th Jul 2013 at 00:38.
mm43 is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:39
  #648 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
From that posted video of the crash, it appears that the plane may have hit the surface of the water for some distance before striking the retaining wall. There is a white streak which looks like spray before the orange/brown dust cloud.
EEngr is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:41
  #649 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Con-pilot, I think he was referring to the crew, not the victims. Unless threa Re criminal charged laid, I think they will be allowed to return home.
Okay, if that is the case, it didn't really read like that, but as far as I know, in the US criminal charges cannot be filed, if even then, in case of an accident until after the NTSB report comes out. So the flight crew can go home as soon as they are interviewed.

Now I could be wrong, as many years ago, there was an accident involving a Mexican crew, they left the US to go back to Mexico before they were even interviewed by the NTSB. So the law may have changed.

But, in any case, this crew on the 777 would have to be charged with a crime to keep them in the country and for criminal charges to be filed, there would have to be probable cause, from the accident report. Unless of course they have a blood/alcohol in excess of the limit. Which I do not believe is a factor here. But who knows.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:43
  #650 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SoCal
Age: 65
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Physics from the Flying Professors

This is a great (preliminary) look at the info available in the public domain-- and it reinforces the earlier question of why they were "high-and-fast" in the approach over The Bridge? With some of the cockpit CVR data available it raises the issue of how they got into a slam dunk-- it sounds like they got put into a short final? Is all the ATC audio available from their turn onto Base, all the way in?
TachyonID is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:46
  #651 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reply to post 643

''Is someone going to try to convince me they can't muster up a visual approach without PAPIs or VASAs?? ''

I think in this case, the hull resting at the end of the runway may convince you of that.

Visual anything in Asian carriers, is like Kryptonite to Superman.

Last edited by Setright; 8th Jul 2013 at 00:51.
Setright is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:51
  #652 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reply to post 649

Said, "is it normal for airports to expect pilots to be able to land without landing aids?"

Yes!
Setright is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:56
  #653 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
Posts: 1,886
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
From that posted video of the crash, it appears that the plane may have hit the surface of the water for some distance before striking the retaining wall. There is a white streak which looks like spray before the orange/brown dust cloud.
The spray could also be the effect of engine thrust on the water, perhaps more likely as there is apparently no reported damage to the approach lighting structures planted in the water.
mickjoebill is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:57
  #654 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Milwaukee WI
Age: 72
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From that posted video of the crash, it appears that the plane may have hit the surface of the water for some distance before striking the retaining wall. There is a white streak which looks like spray before the orange/brown dust cloud.
If the plane had hit the water, wouldn't the immediate effect have been to slam the nose down? It's possible the white streak was a result of the engine thrust on the surface of the water. But the white streak seems to go for quite a distance; well past the 747 on the taxiway, which would suggest it's simply dust, as opposed to the orange/brown smoke plume.
bratschewurst is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 00:58
  #655 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If the F/O was PNF , I will be surprised if he has uttered a single word during the whole app. waiting for the report .
Toruk Macto is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 01:01
  #656 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ADAMS
Age: 53
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Too low, too slow, too late.

Intercepting a glide slope from above involves shifting from the rate of descent used to intercept to the rate of descent to maintain the glide slope. For most that is a more difficult maneuver than flying level and beginning a descent when intercepting the glide slope.
ipsatex is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 01:03
  #657 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Formerly in Seoul
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was employed by Korean Air some years ago. As indicated by previous posters, Koreans are not able to fly visual approaches, despite simulator sessions that profess to teach them how. They are totally lost without an ILS (think back to the Korean 747 classic accident in Guam!).
On one occasion I elected to fly a visual approach to 31L in JFK instead of going to 31R, this saved a lot of taxi time after landing). I was called to the office to explain why I flew a visual approach and did not use the ILS!
FOQA data was designed to be used as a trend indicator, however Korean used it for punitive measures so it is not surprising that local pilots would take whatever measures were required to avoid exceeding the laid down parameters.

Last edited by Won2Go; 8th Jul 2013 at 01:04.
Won2Go is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 01:03
  #658 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Milwaukee WI
Age: 72
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No, in thirteen years of operating at LHR I have NEVER seen the ILS for an active runway OTS. All maintenance is done at night, and the active runway is switched for short term failures. LHR has CAT111 no decision on all runways, so there is a lot of redundancy to allow for failures.
Of course, there's be a lot fewer landings at LHR without instrument approaches. SFO in the summer (except for some mornings) is pretty much severe clear all the time.
bratschewurst is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 01:05
  #659 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not being familiar with a 777, what would have caused that intense fire? Didn't look like the fuel tanks ruptured and started the fire. Does the 777 carry LOX near the main cabin area or is there just that much flammable material in the cabin?
Oxygen lines to the PSUs
Even if this Korean 777 was fitted with a gaseous oxygen system and not a chemical-generated oxygen system, the lines to the PSUs should not have oxygen in them without the system being activated.

Perhaps an unfortunate combination of power and shorted wiring would do this.
NSEU is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 01:06
  #660 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If the plane had hit the water, wouldn't the immediate effect have been to slam the nose down? It's possible the white streak was a result of the engine thrust on the surface of the water.
Looking at the video of Sully's A320 touching down on the Hudson, it appears the engine nacelles functioned like water skis for a second or two, until one finally dug in and separated from the wing.
barit1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.