Asiana flight crash at San Francisco
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Mountain Bear -
PAPI's working per NTSB. NOT the fault of that podunk, hillbilly SFO. Glideslopes are NOTAM'd out all the time for maintenance.
I would worry more about what factors led the crew to be "significantly slow."
PAPI's working per NTSB. NOT the fault of that podunk, hillbilly SFO. Glideslopes are NOTAM'd out all the time for maintenance.
I would worry more about what factors led the crew to be "significantly slow."
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It would be quicker to allow some passengers to take their bag . Telling them to leave their bag behind would increase the time to evacuate with the ensuing arguments or feigned no understand look .
It has now made me think that to trample over the person in the way of the exit who is getting their luggage is the right thing to do.
It has now made me think that to trample over the person in the way of the exit who is getting their luggage is the right thing to do.
Navcant,
No, in thirteen years of operating at LHR I have NEVER seen the ILS for an active runway OTS. All maintenance is done at night, and the active runway is switched for short term failures. LHR has CAT111 no decision on all runways, so there is a lot of redundancy to allow for failures.
Maybe I've just been lucky.
Back to topic, amazing there were so few fatalities considering what the video shows.
LD
No, in thirteen years of operating at LHR I have NEVER seen the ILS for an active runway OTS. All maintenance is done at night, and the active runway is switched for short term failures. LHR has CAT111 no decision on all runways, so there is a lot of redundancy to allow for failures.
Maybe I've just been lucky.
Back to topic, amazing there were so few fatalities considering what the video shows.
LD
Mountain Bear & over the wing,
Exactly what is the relationship between the ILS being OTS and the crew getting significantly slow on final? The visual aid was working, an ILS cannot monitor or correct airspeed. Visual approaches are very common, probably 5 times more likely to be flown than instrument approaches, in the US anyway. Apparently, elsewhere not so much, sadly.
Passengers are paying for transportation between two points, not the airport facilities being constantly operational. Would you suggest that, on a clear day, KSFO just close and send everyone to KSEA or KLAX?
Exactly what is the relationship between the ILS being OTS and the crew getting significantly slow on final? The visual aid was working, an ILS cannot monitor or correct airspeed. Visual approaches are very common, probably 5 times more likely to be flown than instrument approaches, in the US anyway. Apparently, elsewhere not so much, sadly.
Passengers are paying for transportation between two points, not the airport facilities being constantly operational. Would you suggest that, on a clear day, KSFO just close and send everyone to KSEA or KLAX?
Last edited by galaxy flyer; 7th Jul 2013 at 21:25.
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-No discussion of anomalies or concerns in cockpit until a crewmember calls out speed too low 7 seconds before impact
-Stick shaker 4 seconds prior to impact
-Stick shaker 4 seconds prior to impact
Fatigue? 
Did the PNF not do anything either, just call 
out? 
Clearly, they knew that had issues so why didn't they fix them appropriately? That seems to be the key question now.
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Press the darn TOGA-button and GO-AROUND !
Exactly same happened at Amsterdam.
Turkish Airlines Flight 1951 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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... but Richard Quest gained a lot of brownies after his technical report ... and here is the question for you Richard ... if you're reading around these pages ...
What are the stabilization criteria Asiana Crew must follow during a Visual Approach?
What are the stabilization criteria Asiana Crew must follow during a Visual Approach?
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What appears to have happened just seems inconceivable.
The loss of life could have been so much worse. The CNN video shows the aircraft hit the sea wall at a very high angle of attack, the tail is torn off and the aircraft groundloops almost 360 degrees counterclockwise with the nose and left wingtip on the ground and the rear of the fuselage at an angle of what looks to me to be as high as 30 degrees. Just amazing.
The loss of life could have been so much worse. The CNN video shows the aircraft hit the sea wall at a very high angle of attack, the tail is torn off and the aircraft groundloops almost 360 degrees counterclockwise with the nose and left wingtip on the ground and the rear of the fuselage at an angle of what looks to me to be as high as 30 degrees. Just amazing.
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Exactly what is the relationship between the ILS being OTS and the crew getting significantly slow on final?
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Raw Video Fred Hayes Video of Asiana Flight 214 Crash on CNN - YouTube
Video of the mishap occurring. Looks like they were in the water long before the runway.
Slag away....
Video of the mishap occurring. Looks like they were in the water long before the runway.
Slag away....
Last edited by skidbuggy; 7th Jul 2013 at 21:38.
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Was there anything wrong with having no final approach slope guidance in clear sky? No because hundreds of other flights coped totally successfully.
Accidents in non-prec approach environments are significantly more frequent than precision approaches.
So a more appropriate wording: 'it took just a few hundred copies for proof of a known'.
Remember. We are collecting factors contributing. This is not the moment to condemn one party and exculpate another.
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For the posters up in arms about the ils being out of service: I hope you realize not every runway in the world is equipped with them, in fact the vast majority do not have them. The ils wasn't turned off to save on the power bill or any silly reason, they are being moved to accomodate new runway thresholds. The options are either go without or close the airport. We you consider closing the airport a good idea, I suggest you carefully study your next trip as you just might be flying somewhere workout an ils even installed! Heaven forbid, sometimes the local air traffic control doesn't even have a radar system to tell us what to do!
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Accidents in non-prec approach environments are significantly more frequent than precision approaches.
Automation are a must as well as manual handling skill ... and it's not nostalgia or old school ... it's just a Visual Approach were Aim-Point and Air-Speed are the basic cross-check!