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Toxic Cabin Air/Aerotoxic Syndrome

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Toxic Cabin Air/Aerotoxic Syndrome

Old 26th Jun 2015, 03:08
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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And talking of fume events and ill health - what sort of oil were they putting in those smoke generators, when we did smoke training?
It's a vegetable based oil. Basically margarine. Had to buy some for the company x-mas party
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Old 29th Jun 2015, 08:48
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Boeing sued by flight attendants over toxic fumes that leaked into the cabin | Daily Mail Online
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 00:00
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And talking of fume events and ill health - what sort of oil were they putting in those smoke generators, when we did smoke training?
It's a vegetable based oil. Basically margarine.
Apparently for smoke training they use the same type of smoke generators as those used in entertainment venues and stage effects.
These use a mixture of water and glycol or glycerine, colloquially referred to as smoke juice. The smoke they produce has a characteristic sweet smell.

Glycol is somewhat toxic and slightly irritating, but you'd have to inhale a relatively large quantity of the stuff to suffer any serious ill effects.

Incidentally, glycol also occurs in some cabin fume events. De-icing fluid contains a significant amount of glycol, and it is not uncommon for some de-icing fluid to be ingested by the engines and consequently the glycol vapours finding their way via bleed air and air conditioning packs into the cabin.

Smoke machines using mineral oil based fluids are said to exist, but I never encountered one in my thirty year stage career, and I'd stay well clear if I did. Bleah.

Last edited by olandese_volante; 3rd Jul 2015 at 01:51. Reason: lost paragraph in offline edit
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 17:54
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"I'd stay well clear"...If only flight crew confronted with a fume event had that option
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 18:53
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Death of BA worker blamed on cabin fumes | The Sunday Times
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 20:24
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for those who don't have a subscription to read the article linked in the previous post in full, look here
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Old 13th Jul 2015, 20:07
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http://www.aeroinside.com/item/6020/british-airways-b772-near-london-on-jul-12th-2015-fumes-in-cockpit-rnl
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 17:31
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The inquest of Richard Westgate has opened in Salisbury.

(BBC South Today TV)
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 18:02
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Just saw a clip on the news saying his death was not related to cabin fumes.

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-04-06/t...coroner-rules/
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 19:06
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The linked clip doesn't say that at all.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 21:24
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Angry

Judge for yourselves - I think all the comment that is required is this extract of the summary from the scientific paper on Richards autopsy written by amongst others a world expert in neuro-toxology:

We report here the case of a 43-year old airline pilot who presented with neurological deficits and other symptoms. The pilot died without regaining good health. In vivo blood had been collected ante mortem. Analysis of the serum confirmed grossly elevated levels of serum autoantibody biomarkers for neuronal cell degeneration compared with a control group. At autopsy, various tissues underwent histopathological assessment. Brain and spinal tissues exhibited axonal degeneration and demyelination. Peripheral nerves showed T-lymphocyte infiltration and demyelination. T-lymphocytes had infiltrated the heart muscle tissue. The post-mortem tests and pathological examination of the nervous system confirmed the autoantibody biomarker results. Differential diagnosis showed that the work environment, clinical condition, histopathology and serum biomarkers for nervous system injury are consistent with organophosphate-induced neurotoxicity. The results also indicated that the inferred exposure to organophosphates sensitized the nervous system and heart tissue towards further injury.

Last edited by Afterglow; 6th Apr 2017 at 21:35.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 08:01
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Got a link to the actual paper?
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 09:35
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Yes of course:

Autoantibody markers of neural degeneration are associated with post-mortem
histopathological alterations of a neurologically injured pilot
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 10:14
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This local news would appear to be relevant:

Inquest into death of BA pilot will not consider aerotoxic syndrome (From Bournemouth Echo)
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 12:24
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Originally Posted by silverstrata
However - I always thought that the 146's blue cabin smoke was coming form the overheating packs, not the APU itself.
The 146/RJ packs use air bearings - no oil in them...
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 15:27
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Originally Posted by pulse1
I was under the impression that an inquest was required to consider ALL factors into a death.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 19:44
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I think I might be displaying the symptoms..........could have sworn I saw a post on this thread about somebody having a quiet word with the Coroner.....
Has that post been voluntarily removed or God forbid, have we got censorship on these forums?
For the record, my personal opinion on this contentious subject:
I think the vast majority of modernish jet engines have been leaking small amounts of oil ( organophosphate) into cabin air for many years. Therefore, all persons on board airliners have been exposed to same. I would think that a very small percentage of persons are highly sensitive to OP and suffer terribly from exposure to same.

I suspect that all the vested interests ( and there are many) realise the potential costs of liability and are very happy to see the theory of AeroToxic Syndrome rubbished and discredited at every opportunity.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 20:03
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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Excellent summary in your first paragraph. To the point and positive assessment

However your concluding paragraph, provides nothing more than your single vote of your opinion and serves nil towards any solution beyond status quo.

It is that part of your message that gets rubbished
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 21:11
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Originally Posted by Chris2303
I was under the impression that an inquest was required to consider ALL factors into a death.
In a case like this, the Coroner is largely dependent on the findings of a post-mortem.

Unless the PM specifically attributes the death to Aerotoxic Syndrome, that possibility will be given no more weight than a multitude of other possible factors.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 07:07
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Great, thanks.
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