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Toxic Cabin Air/Aerotoxic Syndrome

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Toxic Cabin Air/Aerotoxic Syndrome

Old 16th Oct 2017, 06:54
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EasyJet in forced landing as ‘smell event’ overcomes co‑pilot

Sunday Times article about an easyjet fume event flight.

Note that oil fume events are now called 'smell events'...or 'odor events' in the US.

EasyJet in forced landing as ?smell event? overcomes co?pilot - Aerotoxic Association
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 20:34
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There are other contaminants that can enter the aircondition system.
Hydraulic and deice fluids to mention two.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 14:57
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Could this be a bit like 'nut allergy'?
Perhaps a vanishingly small percentage of people are allergic to tiny amounts of contamination which have no effect on anyone else.
Or maybe their illness was engendered by something unrelated to aircraft air.

No comment re BAe146.
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 00:59
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Have you ever owned a Citroen 2CV or a VW Beetle? How about those sheet metal boxes around the hot bits of the aircooled cylinders and exhaust connections? Yeah, they are a cheap solution to providing heated air to the cabin. Any chance of an exhaust gasket leak, or fumes from seeping oil heated at n degrees on the cylinder head actually being sucked into the cabin. "Slim to none, let's go with it. Otherwise, geez, you're talking a real costly solution."
Bypass air straight to the cabin? What were they/we thinking?
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 09:07
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It isn't bypass air; it's bleed air from an compressor stage which supplies an appropriate pressure.
I agree with the risk you mention but there's no such possibility with compressor bleed air. On the ground you can get some re-ingestion of your own and others exhaust gas but airport workers breath that all the time.
The theoretical source of in-flight contamination is a leaking oil seal on the forward fan/compressor bearing.
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Old 22nd Oct 2017, 13:51
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"airport workers breathe that all the time..." Yes. Including flight crew.

Last edited by ShotOne; 31st Oct 2017 at 19:57.
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 17:55
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This aircraft situation is nowhere equivalent to the Citroen/Beatle situation. The aircraft uses bleed air bled from the compression section of the engine. Unlike the air in the automobiles you cited, the aircraft air is nowhere exposed to exhaust air nor engine components exposed to combustion. In piston powered aircraft (and even some turbo prop aircraft) cabin air is supplied by an engine driven compressor. On 787 the compressor is driven by an electric motor. Those compressors are functionally no different than the compression section of a turbine engine and no more nor less safe.
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 18:14
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I agree it's not the same as Citroen/Beetle analogy. But it's not at all true to say bleed air carries the same risk as air from an electric compressor. Even a minor oil leak from a bearing (or anywhere) upstream of the bleed will result in contamination
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 19:33
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Actually, it is very much the same. The design of most turbine engines means that there is generally only one bearing where an oil leak can result in oil into the compressor air upstream of the bleed off take - which is also the case with most electric compressors.
I'm now retired so I no longer see the daily 21.3 reports, but before I retired there was at least one "fume" event on a 787, reportedly due to an issue with the electric air compressor..
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 20:01
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The 787 compressors are equipped with air bearings.
Not a single drop of oil in the entire air condition.
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 23:39
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That was the original design intent - but they couldn't make it work. It uses the same oil as the engine.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 01:12
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What's the maximum air temperature if the bearings leak oil in this compressor?
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 03:30
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That I don't know - I never actually worked the 787 but I do recall reading that they had to abandon the air bearings. But as I noted previously, there's been at least one reported "fume" event on the 787 related to an air cycle machine fault. So it's reasonable to assume it get's hot enough that if there is oil present in can cause a problem.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 09:29
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Oil lubrication for an ACM?Yes,on B737 Classic and Dash-8...
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 21:33
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Hi All,

Here is part 1 of ‘Poison in the cockpit’ from 2010 & part 2 from 2013

Part 1: https://zembla.bnnvara.nl/nieuws/gif-in-de-cockpit

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QfhtaXr2Bs

Part 3 will be tomorrow on 8th November 2017

Part 4 will be on 15th November 2017

Poisoning Cover up - finally exposed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PW84yS7l-Q Dutch TV 8.11.17

Next programme on 15th November 2017...
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Old 15th Nov 2017, 21:26
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Zembla Part 4 'Poison in the cockpit'

Uitzending gemist | ZEMBLA, Gif in de cockpit: De belangen op Nederland 3

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Old 9th Jan 2018, 13:43
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Question Study necessary, cover up?

You tube video removed, why? Not much discussion on this from the airline pilot community ? Another inconvenient truth or....
Is there a cover up? This issues needs to be studied further for hard facts as the fumes affect us, and there´s not enough facts available.
Shouldn't we ask our airlines, manufacturers, unions, authorities to do a serious hard fact study, as it appears it has been kept quiet. Not to alarm, to find solutions

Airline Workers Warn of 'Toxic Fume Events' on Planes From Bleed Air | Fortune
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 14:45
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But it's not a problem - after all the German BFU refuse to investigate any and all fume events.
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 16:13
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This issues needs to be studied further for hard facts as the fumes affect us, and there´s not enough facts available.
Are you proposing that it gets studied until the hard facts support a specific conclusion that there is enough facts?

Please provide an endpoint as we know that people of all walks of life get sick everyday from unknown causes.
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 17:46
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The problem is not the "fume events that happen an estimated 2.6 times a day".
The problem is the non-fume events that happen more frequently and don't smell but you
breath along the years.
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