Helicopter Crash Central London

[Swerve550]

BOAC, Vauxhall Bridge is east of Battersea Heliport, so I assume he was flying west toward Battersea?

[BOAC]

Swerve - I know where Vauxhall is and the heliport.

Read this?
"What I saw this morning was not good: a helicopter flying at about 500ft eastbound along the Thames helicopter route. As it was just passing over Chelsea Bridge" from
Visibility must have been zero, or close to it... The helicopter flew straight into dense fog. As a former pilot, this struck me as peculiar, to put it mildly' - Comment - Voices - The Independent

[Swerve550]

BOAC, I see your point re this chap's statement. What I don't understand therefore is why the heli is flying in the opposite direction from the standard route I see the helis flying on every day from across the water. Landing either from the west or east but always along the axis of the Thames.

[Dont Hang Up]

Read this?
"What I saw this morning was not good: a helicopter flying at about 500ft eastbound along the Thames helicopter route. As it was just passing over Chelsea Bridge" from
Visibility must have been zero, or close to it... The helicopter flew straight into dense fog. As a former pilot, this struck me as peculiar, to put it mildly' - Comment - Voices - The Independent

Actually the times do not tally. The witness has a precise time of 7:37 logging into his gym. The flight left Redhill at 7:35. The BBC quote the crash at around 08:00.

The crash site is more consistent with the aircraft heading south, possibly following the river, and possibly missing the sharp bend to the West due to loss of loss of visibility. (Last points pure conjecture obviously)

[BOAC]

Originally Posted by swerve

why the heli is flying in the opposite direction from the standard route I see the helis flying on every day from across the water. Landing either from the west or east but always along the axis of the Thames.

- I'm not sure what a 'standard route' is on a two way route? To me, flying east on the 'south bank' would be the correct path unless the Rules of The Air are changed in the Heliroutes?

Since the Heliport says London was suggesting a div to them and another report said he was returning to Redhill, the situation is unclear.

[jayteeto]

opposite to the STANDARD route. you said it, a divert is not STANDARD. If you clear it with atc you can do non standard, no problem.

[Richard J.]

BOAC, that report in the Independent quotes the observer of the eastbound helicopter as saying he saw it before he clocked into the gym ot 07:37. The crash happened "shortly before 8 a.m." (I haven't seen a more accurate time.)

That suggests to me that the one he saw may have been a different one.

[10W]

Please use this dedicated thread to record any condolence messages or tributes to Pete Barnes.

Thank you in advance.

[BOAC]

DHU and RJ - good points. Missed that!

[green granite]

If it's any help, using the Telegraph photos and google street view this is the view looking North from the impact position, ie. the large area of fire in photo 1

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<So ATC knew that Elstree was u/s, probably knew the police helicopter wasn't flying, but still directed him to Battersea ? Euh >>

Which "ATC" was supposed to know that Elstree was not available? ATC could not "direct him to Battersea". ATC cannot order the diversion of an aircraft; that is wholly the pilot's responsibility.

[Pace]

I hope that Pete Barnes is not made into a scapegoat? The weather closed in around him making it very hard to maintain visual references.
Peter Barnes was a highly experienced Helicopter pilot involved in some of the James Bond Helicopter sequences.

A couple of months ago concerns were made over the lihting on the Crane structure amd night only as shown by this tragic accident is NOT good enough for such slender invisible structures in very poor visibility conditions.
I hope the authorities learn from this and have these very high cranes properly lit at all times!

[Lemain]

Rhetorical, right now, I guess...

Which "ATC" was supposed to know that Elstree was not available? ATC could not "direct him to Battersea". ATC cannot order the diversion of an aircraft; that is wholly the pilot's responsibility.

We'll all be interested to learn whether the pilot had declared an emergency, or asked for urgent assistance from the ground. If not, either the pilot was unaware of any imminent danger, or deemed it impracticable for ground to assist; a pilot of his experience might justifiably decide that's the best if he does not have a copilot to assist and the immediate problem needs 100% flying concentration not RT conversation. Or chose not to.

I rather suspect that by now we'd have been told had the pilot declared a mechanical or other problem and those with many years experience will be forming ideas.

[Lemain]

I hope the authorities learn from this and have these very high cranes properly lit at all times!

In cloud/fog? I don't remember ever having used structure lights other than for visual nav - and then usually on foot/car/boat.

[BOAC]

gg- assuming that is is accurate, it would look as if he might have come down the A5 and missed the 'hang a right'?

Pace - I'm not sure lighting it in daylight would help a chopper in those conditions?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Lemain. As he should have been operating under SVFR and Battersea has no radar it would be difficult to know how ATC could assist, short of alerting the emergency services. To obtain radar assistance he would have to go back to Heathrow.

[Pittsextra]

Which "ATC" was supposed to know that Elstree was not available? ATC could not "direct him to Battersea". ATC cannot order the diversion of an aircraft; that is wholly the pilot's responsibility.

Given the short flight time between Redhill and Elstree I'm surprised neither he or the operator hadn't just called them up and just asked the question "whats the weather like where you are".

Given he lifted at 0735hrs out of Redhill, crashed at 0800hrs in London having found he couldn't get into Elstree -did the weather fundementally change in the time?

[ShyTorque]

- I'm not sure what a 'standard route' is on a two way route? To me, flying east on the 'south bank' would be the correct path unless the Rules of The Air are changed in the Heliroutes?

The heliroutes have their own specific rules. Helicopters are normally to be flown over the centre of the river where it forms part of the route, unless told by Heathrow Special to fly "northside" or "southside", in the event of opposing traffic needing to pass.

Here's a link to a CAA page which shows some relevant information and a basic chart of the routes: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/7/EIS%2006.pdf

[John R81]

Lemain

Not sure from your profile if you are a helicopter pilot.

I read through this thread start to finish. Much better information / speculation on the Rotorheads thread, though there is some "tosh" there also. Some of the speculation here is not relevant to helicopter operation, or to helicopters in the London Zone, or to a twin helicopter (not a single) in that environment.

To sumerize, the flight was from Redhill to Elstree 1 POB. Working Heathrow Special, entered the zone. Being a twin, helirouts are not mandatory. Elstree was not possible due to deteriorating weather so RTB requested, as Redhill remained clear. On the way back, asked HRS for a divert to Battersea - (speculation) weather closed in on him? Diversion cleared with Battersea by HRS and given. No radio contact made with Battersea and the rest is on the news.

[BOAC]

Ta, ST - I note that ref does not specify 'middle of the river' per se.

NB This is more for my interest than in relation to this accident, as it was a twin.