Dutch TV reports on 'Ryanair pilots denominated alarm over safety'
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Ryanair decides where you are based, so that could be somewhere far away from where your family lives. It happens to more pilots because there's not always an airport in your backyard with your employer's aircraft sitting on the tarmac waiting for you to show up...
But as being said, Ryanair pilots (contracters) only get paid when they fly. So if they are send to some sh*th*le for some SBY's, than they won't get a penny... But in the meantime they are expected to pay for all their expenses. So you end up in a self-paid hotelroom waiting for a call. To only good thing is that pilots are allowed to travel for free on Ryanair flights when wearing a uniform.
I do not work for Ryanair but I do fly low-cost and I don't get paid when doing SBY's for my company. However, I live 15 minutes away from my preferred base and can maintain a social live while waiting for a call. Furthermore our union only allows us to do 3 SBY's a month, so that means on other days I should be planned for duty or otherwise get OFF. And if they need pilots (SBY's) at another base, they pay the shortest possible proceeding (extra payment), hotel and 54 euro per day for food and drinks. And furthermore I get a basic salary that is comparable with legacy's... My company appreciates its pilots and we are all very highly motivated to give our company it's profit its deserves!!
As you might imagine we are very 'expensive' for our low-cost company. But that's only because they compare our T&C's with Ryanair's.... But if you compare it with the TOTAL COST of our operation, our salaries are hardly noticeable. I arrived in this luxury situation because my previous colleagues (who are almost retiring) were in a union and fought hard to maintain their T&C's.
But the problem in this world of marginal profits is that in the end our competitors are 'cheaper' because their pilots are willing to bend more forward than others....
So yes, it is in EVERYBODY's interest to stop these deteriorating T&C's at Ryanair and other companies. Not because a lousy union from the middle ages says so, no because all pilots are affected by this situation....
But as being said, Ryanair pilots (contracters) only get paid when they fly. So if they are send to some sh*th*le for some SBY's, than they won't get a penny... But in the meantime they are expected to pay for all their expenses. So you end up in a self-paid hotelroom waiting for a call. To only good thing is that pilots are allowed to travel for free on Ryanair flights when wearing a uniform.
I do not work for Ryanair but I do fly low-cost and I don't get paid when doing SBY's for my company. However, I live 15 minutes away from my preferred base and can maintain a social live while waiting for a call. Furthermore our union only allows us to do 3 SBY's a month, so that means on other days I should be planned for duty or otherwise get OFF. And if they need pilots (SBY's) at another base, they pay the shortest possible proceeding (extra payment), hotel and 54 euro per day for food and drinks. And furthermore I get a basic salary that is comparable with legacy's... My company appreciates its pilots and we are all very highly motivated to give our company it's profit its deserves!!
As you might imagine we are very 'expensive' for our low-cost company. But that's only because they compare our T&C's with Ryanair's.... But if you compare it with the TOTAL COST of our operation, our salaries are hardly noticeable. I arrived in this luxury situation because my previous colleagues (who are almost retiring) were in a union and fought hard to maintain their T&C's.
But the problem in this world of marginal profits is that in the end our competitors are 'cheaper' because their pilots are willing to bend more forward than others....
So yes, it is in EVERYBODY's interest to stop these deteriorating T&C's at Ryanair and other companies. Not because a lousy union from the middle ages says so, no because all pilots are affected by this situation....
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But if you compare it with the TOTAL COST of our operation, our salaries are hardly noticeable.
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Good evening,
It is all about egoism and ignorance.
Nobody cares about what is going on, and this in every society sector.
Pilots do not realize how bad is it for us all, when one accepts to pay for his type rating, or to sign a terrible contact.
Passengers do not realize, and don't even try to know, what they are paying for....
Authorities are being driven by industry lobby, and so are the governments.
That is why the world is as it is today.... Every citizen an every professional fighting one against the other, while shareholders are making very big profits.... In the case of this airline 530 million euros... That is a lot of money, being taken out of the employees, customers, and citizens...
Perhaps this is the time to change this system...
It is all about egoism and ignorance.
Nobody cares about what is going on, and this in every society sector.
Pilots do not realize how bad is it for us all, when one accepts to pay for his type rating, or to sign a terrible contact.
Passengers do not realize, and don't even try to know, what they are paying for....
Authorities are being driven by industry lobby, and so are the governments.
That is why the world is as it is today.... Every citizen an every professional fighting one against the other, while shareholders are making very big profits.... In the case of this airline 530 million euros... That is a lot of money, being taken out of the employees, customers, and citizens...
Perhaps this is the time to change this system...
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Enjoy the view
If you wish to quote something I said, please do so correctly. In fact this is what I said.
Alleged not by me I'll add.
The comments were regarding pilot salaries and PH-Chucky made a very good point about this, I put an actual figure to it. These are the facts, in a legacy carrier the technical crew (ie pilot) costs are around 4% of total operating costs, this varies of course somewhat between carriers, but will be around that figure, plus or minus a percent or two. Nevertheless, a very lean LCC can get that down to around half a legacy carrier's costs by using some of the tactics discussed by others here. In other words, 'Chucky is absolutely right, the technical crew costs, as a percentage of overall operating costs, are much less that what some people may possibly imagine. While it will clearly be a blow to some overinflated egos here, we really are small cogs in the grand scheme of things, at least when it comes to costs.
Indeed. However cabin crew + flight crew, who are ALL affected by the (your quote) 'disgraceful business practices' and the 'you need to become more efficient' inevitable memo still represent 90% of the workforce!
That is slightly 'more' than 2% of the operating costs.
That is slightly 'more' than 2% of the operating costs.
If some of the disgraceful business practices that have allegedly emerged ...
The comments were regarding pilot salaries and PH-Chucky made a very good point about this, I put an actual figure to it. These are the facts, in a legacy carrier the technical crew (ie pilot) costs are around 4% of total operating costs, this varies of course somewhat between carriers, but will be around that figure, plus or minus a percent or two. Nevertheless, a very lean LCC can get that down to around half a legacy carrier's costs by using some of the tactics discussed by others here. In other words, 'Chucky is absolutely right, the technical crew costs, as a percentage of overall operating costs, are much less that what some people may possibly imagine. While it will clearly be a blow to some overinflated egos here, we really are small cogs in the grand scheme of things, at least when it comes to costs.
In similar vein,
You can fly First Class with a legacy carrier and you can buy designer clothes.
You can fly Economy Class with a legacy carrier and you can buy good clothing from a high street retailer.
You can fly sub-Economy with a loco and you can buy cheap clothing 'bargains' at a car boot sale.
None of which is illegal. But at what cost to those working in some sweat shop was your car boot sale T-shirt produced? If something seems too good to be true, then it probably is. When it costs more to park at the airport than it does to fly, someone somewhere must be suffering as a result. But the greed of many of the UK's loutish air travellers shows that they don't care a damn - just so long as the price is low. Because the children of the "I want it now, I don't care how" generation simply have no conscience.
You can fly First Class with a legacy carrier and you can buy designer clothes.
You can fly Economy Class with a legacy carrier and you can buy good clothing from a high street retailer.
You can fly sub-Economy with a loco and you can buy cheap clothing 'bargains' at a car boot sale.
None of which is illegal. But at what cost to those working in some sweat shop was your car boot sale T-shirt produced? If something seems too good to be true, then it probably is. When it costs more to park at the airport than it does to fly, someone somewhere must be suffering as a result. But the greed of many of the UK's loutish air travellers shows that they don't care a damn - just so long as the price is low. Because the children of the "I want it now, I don't care how" generation simply have no conscience.
Last edited by BEagle; 6th Jan 2013 at 10:15.
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Meanwhile back on topic (the claims made by Ryanair pilots in two Dutch TV documentaries) does it not ring alarm bells when a clearly identifiable non anonymous or disguised bona fide ex-Ryanair Captain publicly makes comments along the lines of "unless things change, there's going to be an accident due to the corporate culture and extra pressure and stress NOT FOUND IN OTHER AIRLINES HE's WORKED FOR" ????
Ryanair seem to be conveniently avoiding any mention of him in any of their responses!
Ryanair seem to be conveniently avoiding any mention of him in any of their responses!
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Every large employer can have disgruntled employees but an employer that offers all employees encouragement, trust and honesty shouldn't have too many. One or two fictitious employees running to the media just doesn't breed credibility. It implies the information given may not be correct or was made up.
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BOAC:
http://nl.sitestat.com/klo/kro/s?jou...air_deel_2.pdf
and
http://nl.sitestat.com/klo/kro/s?jou...air_deel_2.pdf
This from the website of the makers
Reporter - Mayday Mayday deel 2
http://nl.sitestat.com/klo/kro/s?jou...air_deel_2.pdf
and
http://nl.sitestat.com/klo/kro/s?jou...air_deel_2.pdf
This from the website of the makers
Reporter - Mayday Mayday deel 2
Last edited by sleeper; 6th Jan 2013 at 14:23.
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Sunday Times apology to Ryanair for incorrect report
At January 6 2013 The Sunday Times has apologised to Ryanair and agreed to pay substantial damages, which at the airline’s request, will be paid to the charity The Jack & Jill Children’s Foundation. The apology followed an incorrect report about breaches of safety rules (Times).
The report published September 23 can be read here :
https://www.usca.es/uploads/userfile...12-Ryanair.pdf
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1187917.ece
An article (headlined “Ryanair accused of 1,201 safety violations”, Travel, September 23, 2012) stated that, according to a leaked report from the Spanish air safety agency (AESA), Ryanair planes broke safety rules 1,201 times in Spanish airspace in the first six months of 2012. We now accept that this was incorrect; there was no such report and Ryanair did not commit 1,201 breaches of safety rules.
In the same article we also reported three emergency landings that arose due to bad weather diversions from Madrid to Valencia on July 26, 2012. The article described these flights as having insufficient fuel to remain in holding patterns and reported claims that Ryanair was routinely abusing the mayday protocol to jump landing queues. We accept that all these allegations were untrue and apologise to Ryanair for the damage caused by this article.
The rest of the artile is only available for subscribers of Sunday Times.
The report published September 23 can be read here :
https://www.usca.es/uploads/userfile...12-Ryanair.pdf
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1187917.ece
An article (headlined “Ryanair accused of 1,201 safety violations”, Travel, September 23, 2012) stated that, according to a leaked report from the Spanish air safety agency (AESA), Ryanair planes broke safety rules 1,201 times in Spanish airspace in the first six months of 2012. We now accept that this was incorrect; there was no such report and Ryanair did not commit 1,201 breaches of safety rules.
In the same article we also reported three emergency landings that arose due to bad weather diversions from Madrid to Valencia on July 26, 2012. The article described these flights as having insufficient fuel to remain in holding patterns and reported claims that Ryanair was routinely abusing the mayday protocol to jump landing queues. We accept that all these allegations were untrue and apologise to Ryanair for the damage caused by this article.
The rest of the artile is only available for subscribers of Sunday Times.
Last edited by 1stspotter; 6th Jan 2013 at 15:17.
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With regard to the Sunday Times, Ryanair and "the truth", I noticed in one of its press releases regarding the Dutch documentary, Ryanair clearly states they have 1700 contract pilots, yet a couple of months ago in an interview with the Irish Sunday Times:-
No further questions m'lud.
Asked how Ryanair pilots were employed, O’Leary said: “The majority are direct employees and a minority are contractors.”
Last edited by Aldente; 6th Jan 2013 at 15:45.
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They now have 305 Boeing 737/800 aircraft I guess they have a lot of direct employed pilots, jez but ye guys will do anything to bash Ryanair even when the papers get it wrong you go looking for something else to knock in the company , 
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Ryanair seems to disagree with many media.
See this message on Air Scoop | The European Low-Cost Carriers Specialists
Air-scoop had made a very interesting paper with lots of details on Ryanair.
It is 56 pages, has info on for example the business structures (shows holdings and Ltd's). Must read for those interested to get some more info on the business model.
It can be downloaded for free at above site.
See this message on Air Scoop | The European Low-Cost Carriers Specialists
Ryanair Limited has contacted us to dispute the validity of several statements that appear in Air Scoop’s 2011 report on Ryanair’s business model. In Ryanair’s opinion, these statements are either unsubstantiated and/ or false. We value external input on our work as we strive to produce fair, informative and well-documented research documents.
Air-scoop had made a very interesting paper with lots of details on Ryanair.
It is 56 pages, has info on for example the business structures (shows holdings and Ltd's). Must read for those interested to get some more info on the business model.
It can be downloaded for free at above site.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I gave up after 20 minutes. As I have said before, my fluent Dutch is well out of date. Can anyone explain the so-called fuel league tables please? They make no sense to me.
What I saw of the programme represents everything that is bad about so-called 'investigative journalism' - disguised voices, three apparent pilots sitting silhouetted in front of a film screen with their hats on!! Why?? To make them look 'real'? 'Ian Sumner' I believe the only pilot to be identified. What do we know of his 'career' with Ryan? Any 'grudges'?
So the Sunday Times has once again learned to get its facts right before telling stories.
Were the tax advantages of 'contracting' as a pilot covered in the programme? Tax deductable expenses ie board and lodging, food, travel, training/testing costs and licence/medical renewals. Probably mobile phone and internet costs. A few others too. Choice of 'where' your fees are paid?
The 'rebuttals' from McNamara linked by 'sleeper' have not been challenged here - are they correct?
No, I do not like MOL and his ways. However, if people wish to see him 'down' they need to sharpen up and that sort of TV programme will NOT do it..
What I saw of the programme represents everything that is bad about so-called 'investigative journalism' - disguised voices, three apparent pilots sitting silhouetted in front of a film screen with their hats on!! Why?? To make them look 'real'? 'Ian Sumner' I believe the only pilot to be identified. What do we know of his 'career' with Ryan? Any 'grudges'?
So the Sunday Times has once again learned to get its facts right before telling stories.
Were the tax advantages of 'contracting' as a pilot covered in the programme? Tax deductable expenses ie board and lodging, food, travel, training/testing costs and licence/medical renewals. Probably mobile phone and internet costs. A few others too. Choice of 'where' your fees are paid?
The 'rebuttals' from McNamara linked by 'sleeper' have not been challenged here - are they correct?
No, I do not like MOL and his ways. However, if people wish to see him 'down' they need to sharpen up and that sort of TV programme will NOT do it..
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BOAC:
The english subtitled version of the programme can be watched online here.
Reporter - Mayday Mayday Part 2 - English version
No mention of the tax advantages of being a contractor with a Ltd in Ireland.
The main news of the second episode was the confession of one or two pilots that they did fly while not feeling fit to fly (being sick or too tired).
Also did not see any hard evidence like memo's, printscreens of internal websites proving pressure etc.
The english subtitled version of the programme can be watched online here.
Reporter - Mayday Mayday Part 2 - English version
No mention of the tax advantages of being a contractor with a Ltd in Ireland.
The main news of the second episode was the confession of one or two pilots that they did fly while not feeling fit to fly (being sick or too tired).
Also did not see any hard evidence like memo's, printscreens of internal websites proving pressure etc.
Last edited by 1stspotter; 6th Jan 2013 at 20:00.
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You will be allocated an Irish company together with three unknown colleagues. The expenses you mention; most of them are not approved. You are a director of your company, but you have no mandate to make decisions.